MMA circa 2003: Tito v Randy, UFC v PRIDE and other questions

[legatoblues]

Have been going through the early days, watching plenty of awesome cards for the first time, but that's not the same as being there at the time.

To anyone around from back then: What was the story behind Tito's drop from in performance? Was his loss to Randy as big a surprise as the broadcast made it out to be? What was the talk like afterwards?

UFC v PRIDE - how easy was it to follow both organizations? When fighters moved between orgs did the fans know about it as we would now? Bustamante heading to Pride as a UFC champ - was that story publicized / when did fans know he vacated the UFC belt?

And what about keeping up with other organizations / fighters. Just watched UFC 45 with the first Hughes v Trigg fight. That was Triggs UFC debut - did the average fan have any idea who he was? Did his WFA title mean anything? How was it promoted?

It's great to look back on that era, but it seems like a totally different scene....was it really though, or does it just look that way?

 

[TIMELESS TRUTH]

We had Sherdog back then too, so yes this stuff was common knowledge.

 

[the ambush]

Long gone are the days of a part time carpenter / part time fighter or part time cop / part time fighter, you get the picture. Mixed Martial Arts has become a lifestyle.

 

[Goatenstein]

You mean MMA's peak year? Fuck WME.

 

[13Seconds]

Randy's domination of Tito was impressive, but not suprising. He had just mauled Liddell.

 

[Goodfella86]

Tito was expected to beat Randy. He had out wrestled every opponent up until then- even Vladimir Matyushenko, who was a world-class wrestler- and even recently took out a former HW like Randy in Ken Shamrock. Also, Randy lost on his back to Barnett and Ricco, Tito's friend and training partner, the year before that.

Randy had since moved down and demolished Chuck, whom Tito had publicly ducked for the past 6 months, leaving the opportunity for Randy to come down and challenge for the interim belt. Between Randy's performance against Chuck and Tito's duck, it definitely seemed possible that Randy could win. Also, despite Tito out wrestling wrestlers, Randy had out-wrestled everyone until then (Josh and Ricco were dominated early before turning it around).


It was easy to follow UFC/PRIDE if you went online. Unless you got your news from UFC.com, PRIDE was in your face. Bustamante had been gone for over a year at that point, but it was publicized that he was the UFC MW champ.


I suppose only hardcore names knew who Trigg was. He was like Eddie Alvarez when he came to the UFC. I'm sure casual fans could tell he was legit because he was given a title shot immediately, but hardcore fans probably had Trigg/Hughes on their minds for some time.

 

[bonebreaker1029]

Anyone that was familiar with Randy, knew he was capable of dominating any great fighter on any night. Watch his destruction of Vitor back when Vitor was the unstoppable Phenom. Tito was beating up much smaller guys with his distinct size advantage with weight cutting experience.

 

[legatoblues]

We had Sherdog back then too, so yes this stuff was common knowledge.

Probably should have worded things better because I'm well aware of Sherdog / the internet in 2003.

Let's say that a current champion from One FC or similar makes his UFC debut with a title shot. Or if Cody Garbrandt decided to pack his bags for Rizin. People would lose their shit. Same back then?

And how was all that promoted? How did the UFC try to sell Frank Trigg to the masses and where they buying? Same for Bustamante - when did the fans know he was gone?

And as for Tito - he looked great up until that fight. Did people write him off afterwards, or was the decline accepted?

Randy beating him makes sense as the Liddell performance was outstanding and even his losses to Barnett and Ricco still had strong moments for him, but the broadcast made it seem like the biggest upset of all time.

 

[TIMELESS TRUTH]

Probably should have worded things better because I'm well aware of Sherdog / the internet in 2003.

Let's say that a current champion from One FC or similar makes his UFC debut with a title shot. Or if Cody Garbrandt decided to pack his bags for Rizin. People would lose their shit. Same back then?

And how was all that promoted? How did the UFC try to sell Frank Trigg to the masses and where they buying? Same for Bustamante - when did the fans know he was gone?

And as for Tito - he looked great up until that fight. Did people write him off afterwards, or was the decline accepted?

Randy beating him makes sense as the Liddell performance was outstanding and even his losses to Barnett and Ricco still had strong moments for him, but the broadcast made it seem like the biggest upset of all time.

Tito had just recently beaten the then current Pride champ Vanderlei Silva and sent him packing to Japan. Trust me, it was fucking crazy to see Randy dominate Tito and make him cry!

 

[legatoblues]

And I should add that I've recently watched every UFC and Pride card up to the end of 2003. But while I've seen all the performances, it's been without context. No news, no information about the state of the sport, fighter affairs etc, just what was shown on the broadcast.

Like when Randy left for Rings and they had the "road to the HW title" tournament - it was strange to watch out of context, as one minute Randy is champ, then the next we're doing a new tournament and he may well have never existed, so I immediately thought about what did the fans know at that time?

 

[TIMELESS TRUTH]

Maybe I should have worded my initial response better. I and many people at BJJ classes worldwide got much of their MMA information from magazines like GRAPPLING as well.

 

[cusd'amato]

I was definitely a Pride fan, back then. It was easy to follow, bec Pride had a great website that they updated alot, for back then.

It was hard, however, to see the original Japanese versions of the events. These versions were far more entertaining. I got them from a bootleg japanese video store, here in ATL.

 

[TIMELESS TRUTH]

These are great questions and this is actually a good thread. You should check out the IFC and KOTC as well. IFC had many tournament style events and lots of great fighters we know of today. Abu Dhabi was also a big deal back then.

 

[legatoblues]

These are great questions and this is actually a good thread. You should check out the IFC and KOTC as well. IFC had many tournament style events and lots of great fighters we know of today. Abu Dhabi was also a big deal back then.

I've watched a few scattered fights from KOTC and some of the other smaller orgs, usually when I see a fighter I know.

How bout that KOTC card outdoors in the rain???

 

[myjohnson9]

Have been going through the early days, watching plenty of awesome cards for the first time, but that's not the same as being there at the time.

To anyone around from back then: What was the story behind Tito's drop from in performance? Was his loss to Randy as big a surprise as the broadcast made it out to be? What was the talk like afterwards?

UFC v PRIDE - how easy was it to follow both organizations? When fighters moved between orgs did the fans know about it as we would now? Bustamante heading to Pride as a UFC champ - was that story publicized / when did fans know he vacated the UFC belt?

And what about keeping up with other organizations / fighters. Just watched UFC 45 with the first Hughes v Trigg fight. That was Triggs UFC debut - did the average fan have any idea who he was? Did his WFA title mean anything? How was it promoted?

It's great to look back on that era, but it seems like a totally different scene....was it really though, or does it just look that way?

Tito's dropping performance was because of his back injury andsurgery, nobody really expected it but he was never the same after that.

It was easy to follow and keep up with fighter switching because pride was just as big as the UFC if not bigger. It was like if one baseball team traded a player to another baseball team for an an mma fan

To follow the other organizations you really had to be a hard-core fan as they weren't as accessible as they are today

 

[Bloodworth]

Anytime Randy won it was a surprise, he was always the older guy and bounced between hw lhw with some dangerous guys.
Tito dropped in ability around when liddell beat him 2x.
Think tito wasn't as serious about training during that time.

You really didn't hear news about fighters changing orgs back then and it wasnt that common .
Ufc was always on a Saturday and pride was always on Sundays so it was easy to keep up with both.

Back then free ppv boxes were easily available , so free ppv was great.

 

[HHJ]

If you went to sherdog,etc it was easy to follow. Less fighters,less events,so less things were happening. So it was easy to know what you needed to know.

 

[HHJ]

Anytime Randy won it was a surprise, he was always the older guy and bounced between hw lhw with some dangerous guys.
Tito dropped in ability around when liddell beat him 2x.
Think tito wasn't as serious about training during that time.

.

I always thought Tito was overrated. He wasnt gonna beat the best guys once randy and chuck came around. Its that simple. He did impress me with his grit in the 2nd lidell fight. He wasnt gonna win but he did a good job making a fight outta that one,and actually got chuck down.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Tito was expected to beat Randy. He had out wrestled every opponent up until then- even Vladimir Matyushenko, who was a world-class wrestler- and even recently took out a former HW like Randy in Ken Shamrock. Also, Randy lost on his back to Barnett and Ricco, Tito's friend and training partner, the year before that.

Randy had since moved down and demolished Chuck, whom Tito had publicly ducked for the past 6 months, leaving the opportunity for Randy to come down and challenge for the interim belt. Between Randy's performance against Chuck and Tito's duck, it definitely seemed possible that Randy could win. Also, despite Tito out wrestling wrestlers, Randy had out-wrestled everyone until then (Josh and Ricco were dominated early before turning it around).


It was easy to follow UFC/PRIDE if you went online. Unless you got your news from UFC.com, PRIDE was in your face. Bustamante had been gone for over a year at that point, but it was publicized that he was the UFC MW champ.


I suppose only hardcore names knew who Trigg was. He was like Eddie Alvarez when he came to the UFC. I'm sure casual fans could tell he was legit because he was given a title shot immediately, but hardcore fans probably had Trigg/Hughes on their minds for some time.

correct answers. sherdog should impliment a "best answer" like stackexchange, then bubble it up to the top.

 

[HHJ]

These are great questions and this is actually a good thread. You should check out the IFC and KOTC as well. IFC had many tournament style events and lots of great fighters we know of today. Abu Dhabi was also a big deal back then.

IFC ukraine event is excellent to see the rise of Igor Vovchanchyn,and also how fucking ass backwards mma events were organized back then. They still are,really,but stuff like that stood out more then. You wouldnt really give IFC the time of day if it was on now,but in 2003 i was addicted to any mma i could get. Some of those KOTC dvds had alot of fighters who would be something like Rampage,Diego sanchez etc.