Media Mirko says if he could do it over, he would have gone to LHW

All those guys from the 2000-2008ish era would have been better fighting a weight class down.

Shogun, Machida, Rashad, etc. Machida and Rashad could have fought at Welter.

It wasn't until guys like Jones and a few others started exploiting this size difference shit that now guys are crazy dialed in with their weight management leading up to a fight.
 
Both these guys would have fought at LHW today.

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snugglecakes said:
- moose getting exposed by Emanuel Newton's personal plook bitch King Mo goes to show how hilariously overrated Moose really was. He's wrestlefuckable all day long. He got fed strikers to protect his huge weakness that everybody saw.
- Manhoef was pretty much considered a can in MMA and so was Sean McCorkle
- How is slowing down agaist middleweight lindland, grabbing the ropes to stop a takedown supposed to help his cause? Perhaps lindland was a top MW at the time and fedor's background was mostly crushing cans in japan. His downfall at such a young age for a heavyweight can't be spun any other way other than taking a step up in competition and he choked.
- I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why i'm right and you're wrong. I said Pride was better than UFC at the time at first. What else do you want? You're just lookin for an excuse to start Bullshit. You got hung up on just how much better pride's HW division was. Even if it was a lot better, it's still shit. A lot better sometimes just isn't enough. If you were 3x a better fighter than CM punk, that's a lot better than punk & yet you are still garbage. Was mid 2000s mid HW 3x better than UFC's? Was it 5x better? It wasn't better enough to cross into the territory of being good. All of HW was trash during this era. WHy is that so hard to accept?
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Mousasi beat the fuck out of King Mo. He just lost to an unbelievably flawed scoring system.

Can or not, Manhoef is still arguably the heaviest hitter in MMA history and there's not a single fighter on the planet that would have eaten that shot.
McCorkle wasn't a can so much as he just cut too much weight and couldn't perform. It'd be like

Fedor slowed down because he was a tremendously undersized heavyweight that relied on speed and reflexes. At the time there were rumors that his religious practices limited his time in the gym, which would exacerbate any decline. And for that matter, no fighter is going to have the same amount of time in the sport.

There's zero reason to believe the current heavyweight division is any better now. You've got some talented guys up top and it gets sloppier from there.
 
MMACro said:
I always felt dissapointed Waterman didnt do much in MMA,he was a unit
I cant remember who was he helping with wrestling for preparation for some title fight i believe?
Besides this takedown you mentioned on Mirko,i also remember Randleman somehow taking Ron down and controlling him but ultimately losing 🙂
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You might be thinking of Shane Carwin. I don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure Waterman was his high school or college wrestling coach and he helped him when he made the transition to MMA.
 
Bullitt68 said:
You might be thinking of Shane Carwin. I don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure Waterman was his high school or college wrestling coach and he helped him when he made the transition to MMA.
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Could be for Shane's fight with Brock,after all they are similar in size and all
 
Bullitt68 said:
Huh? Do you have a source for this happening? I was a huge fan of both, I was following everything at the time, and I have no recollection of Cro Cop being offered a title fight and turning it down. I can also find no trace of this on the Internet. Any info would be appreciated.
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I don't have a source. I just remember hearing at the time that UFC was wanting to fast track Mirko to a title shot but for whatever reason Mirko opted to face Gonzaga first. Which turned that fight into a #1 contender fight. But I distinctly remember hearing it after Mirko's fight with Sanchez. 🤷‍♂️
 
Adamant said:
I don't have a source. I just remember hearing at the time that UFC was wanting to fast track Mirko to a title shot but for whatever reason Mirko opted to face Gonzaga first. Which turned that fight into a #1 contender fight. But I distinctly remember hearing it after Mirko's fight with Sanchez. 🤷‍♂️
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If you find anything, I'd appreciate you sending it my way. What I remember is the UFC wanting to use Cro Cop to headline their international event (UFC 70 took place in England and Cro Cop was bigger on that side of the world than anyone on the UFC roster) and Cro Cop not demanding a title shot. He was always game to fight anyone and didn't care if he got a title shot in his first, second, or seventh fight, he was just planning on knocking out whoever was standing in front of him. Of course, that's not how things played out, and in hindsight I so wish he would've insisted on fighting Randy so that if he had to lose it would've been to Randy with a belt on the line, but I feel like I'd know and remember if he was offered and refused a title fight against Randy.
 
Doubtful. He was a very compact strong guy with tons of fast twitch muscles, who needed to get the most out of his style by exploding with power. Sizing down would weaken him and reduce the power that made him so effective.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Why on gods green Earth would they cut to 205 in todays MMA landscape? They'd both slice through the dogshit heavyweight division like a knife through butter. Tom is the only guy with a hope in the company of beating either of these two in their prime ATP.
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They would both go for double champ status in todays landscape
 
DrRodentia said:
If it brightens your mood, in their era both had a good shot!
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I just liked when champs valued defending their belt and weren't eager to vacate to go to other divisions. Sad state of the sport. Obviously one of many issues but its a glaring one for me.
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
I just liked when champs valued defending their belt and weren't eager to vacate to go to other divisions. Sad state of the sport. Obviously one of many issues but its a glaring one for me.
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I also prefer divisional dominance. But I also don't blame guys for not wanting to cut the weight anymore and move up.
 
Bullitt68 said:
This was always brought up as a reason he did poorly in the UFC, but it was exaggerated even back then. He did so well in his first fight at UFC 67 that even Randy was complimenting his use of the cage. It didn't have anything to do with being in a cage, it had to do with him losing a step. At his best, Cro Cop would murder people whether it was in a ring or a cage or on a blacktop or a hardwood floor.



He didn't struggle with much bigger, proper HWs like Fujita, Aleks, and Barnett trying to take him down, plus he shut down every TD attempt from Coleman and Randleman. Only the gigantic 260-pound monster Ron Waterman straight-up took him down, and that was just by outmuscling him. And Cro Cop still swept him very quickly and then kicked him in the head. Guys closer in size to him like Tito and Rashad would've been easier for him to deal with as he would've had a significant strength advantage over every LHW ever save for Randy, who had crazy Greco strength, and Rampage, who is probably the strongest person to ever fight at 205, but even they'd have trouble trying to bully Cro Cop in close considering Cro Cop was literally throwing the 6'4'' 260-pound Aleks around.



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What does it say about the UFC that "a buncha bloated LHWs" were better? Besides which, the argument is silly considering the presence of legit HWs like Heath Herring, Sergei Kharitonov, Semmy Schilt, Big Nog, Mark Hunt, Josh Barnett, Aleksander Emelianenko, Fabricio Werdum, and Alistair Overeem. I'd be surprised if even newer UFC HWs like Tuivasa, Volkov, Tybura, Gane, or Blaydes could've hung in the PRIDE 2004 or 2006 GPs.
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This always frustrated me in how the Gonzaga fight is discussed. He had little issues with the cage vs ring, but failing to adapt to the ability to use elbows on the ground was a much bigger problem. He grabbed for wrist control repeatedly and ate elbows for his ignorance. Crocop himself acknowledged this, and even that he was rocked by the time he stood up and ate that high kick.
 
Some just dont fight as well in cage as ring. LHW when Mirko came over was loaded and the Mirko I saw in UFC was very aversge and dont think weight class played as big of a role as LHW was much more stacked . Same said with Fedor a Legend in ring but just a good fighter in cage .
 
Bullitt68 said:
This was always brought up as a reason he did poorly in the UFC, but it was exaggerated even back then. He did so well in his first fight at UFC 67 that even Randy was complimenting his use of the cage. It didn't have anything to do with being in a cage, it had to do with him losing a step. At his best, Cro Cop would murder people whether it was in a ring or a cage or on a blacktop or a hardwood floor.
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Crocop looked terrible vs Sanchez, regardless of what Randy said. He sucked in the cage regardless of losing a step or not
 
Rampage_Jackson said:
Why on gods green Earth would they cut to 205 in todays MMA landscape? They'd both slice through the dogshit heavyweight division like a knife through butter. Tom is the only guy with a hope in the company of beating either of these two in their prime ATP.
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I don't disagree but if they came up in MMA a decade or so later, they'd probably be told that their frames are better suited for the LHW division. They both came up in an open weight era when fighters weren't so stratified into weight classes like today.

Many fighters due to the prevalence of cutting are fighting at lower weight classes than they really should be.
 
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