Mike Tyson from 1986 vs 1996

[Hanz_Blitz]

Agree 100% with Seano, he simply lost focus! He was notorious for hurting sparring partners then in the fight before Douglas and the Douglas fights it was him getting beat up and dropped sparring. Theirs the way he mauled guys like Bruno then a "Prime" Lewis struggled against Bruno. But it was ultimately before Douglas he started losing focus and any fight after he never fully recovered..?! Still had moments of brilliance but nothing like 86-89

 

[bhop1986]

Tyson had psychological problems. Robin Givens, her mother as well as Don King pretty much took over his live. Also, Tyson always had problems before fights. He was tough to control and very emotional, sometimes even crying out of fear to fail.

What could have been a factor training wise is, Tyson trained mostly without any weight lifting up until the late 80s. When he fired Rooney, he allegedly started using weights a lot to build up his muscle mass quicker, which made him a slower.

Than the rape convictions, prison, drugs...

Dude seems to be doing good nowadays.

thank you guys for the posts.i apreciate that.

 

[The Don]

Yea if you're even slightly interested in Tyson
Amazon: Mike Tyson

he does an HBO version on it
http://www.hbo.com/movies/mike-tyson-undisputed-truth

low quality youtube version, for obvious reasons

Also imo, when ppl say Prime Tyson, my version of his Prime is right when he beat Spinks at 35-0 in '88, he still had Kevin Rooney.

That means he did 62% of his fights w/ Cus guidance (total fights 56)

This is the Tyson i want to know, and now after 20 years of wasting away money and a lot of bad decisions, like someone said, he seems to be doing good again.

he's got a 2nd season of his cartoon network show.
he's in Ip Man 3
he seems relatively free of tramatic brain injury

I mean did you see the clip w/ Tyson showing Ali, he can still do Ali's shuffle, it's heartbreaking to watch Ali.

I saw the whole episode of that show. There was an even more heartbreaking moment before that. Muhammad was looking at an album of him in his boxing days. It was depressing to watch seeing him look at a younger, more able version of himself. Really good video, it also showed Mike Tyson's appreciation and respect for Muhammad Ali.

 

[PivotPunch]

I don't think he got slower and up to 1996 he didn't add that much muscle mass a ltitle bit and lostg a little bit of fat but his weight barely changed.

He started partying hard even towards the end of his career with Rooney, he had trainers eh didnt really respect and who neither could add to his style nor had the respect to make him lsiten to their advise in fights.

Up until the Holyfield fights his speed was still there and he waqs still physically there at least beside the drugs and lack of training.

Another thing to consider is that fighters with his styles always had short careers (Marciano, frazier) it was a young men's style and he said so himself and he sparred extremely hard he treated each sparring session like a fight, that isn't healthy and doesn't make for a long career.


He started looking for single big punch more often which he even sometimes did with Rooney but Rooney controled him somewhat and made him listen to a point.

So less combinations, less body punches, his headmovement got worse as he probably didn't bother to use it in training and in fights since he managed to win for a long time regardless, no trainer who had his respect and could provide him with a gameplan, less jabbing and parties and only training as much as he felt like in camp.

 

[bobby59]

I saw the whole episode of that show. There was an even more heartbreaking moment before that. Muhammad was looking at an album of him in his boxing days. It was depressing to watch seeing him look at a younger, more able version of himself. Really good video, it also showed Mike Tyson's appreciation and respect for Muhammad Ali.

Watch this.

 

[Electrifyin1]

he does an HBO version on it
http://www.hbo.com/movies/mike-tyson-undisputed-truth

low quality youtube version, for obvious reasons

Thanks for this, didn't know this video existed.

I was supposed to get tickets for this live in the UK and he cancelled the show

 

[Jack Reacheround]

no, he doesn't, nor do most people who follow boxing. he had all the tools to be one of the greatest but too short a prime against lesser competition than the true greats..

Ok, this is the separation I knew I was missing in my brain. Because I always thought Tyson looked supremely skilled and didn't understand why people don't rank him higher in terms of boxing greats. He never had the chance to prove he could be, so we'll never really know. Therefore, better to give those spots to those who did. I don't know why there was such a disconnect in my brain about that. Probably Mike Tyson's Punch Out trauma.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

I know it's the common narrative, but I don't think any version of Mike Tyson--the 1984 version who lost twice to Henry Tillman as an amateur, the 1986 version who won a 6-4 decision over Quick Tillis or the 1990 version who became the only significant win in a buster Douglas' career--would have beat the 1996 version of Evander Holyfield. Prime Holyfield would have run through those guys and handled the versions of attain they fought as well.

 

[The Don]

Watch this.

I have seen this one! I'll watch it again though. It gets me emotional for some reason when Mike Tyson says "Every head must bow and every tongue must confess, Ali is truly the greatest" Or something along those lines. Thanks for the video!

 

[wilddeuces]

I think that after 88 he started to lose focus and/or desire. The fact that he could still be competitive against some top guys is impressive, but he didn't have that desire that he had in the mid to late 80s. Even before his loss to Douglas the seeds of discontent were evident. Lacking a jab, trying to force the knockout. He lost his patient aggression and by the time the 90's rolled around, he wasn't punching in combinations or working behind a jab often enough to compete with the big fellas. His head movement became erratic, rather than constant.

TL;DR Everything about his fighting got lazy after he became lineal champ. With his style he could never afford to be lazy.

 

[Uncle Termite]

can someone tell me what skills Tyson lost in that 10 years if he lost any.guys with good knowledge for boxing please explain to me the difference .

Tyson from 88 to even 89 lost something...HEAD movement and a bit of footwork....Tyson who fought holmes was far different than who fought Ruddock in 1991 post prison he became stationary for the most part and a one shot looker.What ppl fail to realize its not just the fighter walking in the ring its the trainer too....Knuckle heads like Rich ghiacetti who was holmes former trainer tried reinventing him...The best Tyson after prison was actually against McNeely as he swarmed with combos unfearful...something happened to him in the 96/97 period and it was more than better opponents...it was substance abuse and weight gain which hindered once what was a great technical fighter.

 

[Lanx]

Tyson from 88 to even 89 lost something...HEAD movement and a bit of footwork....Tyson who fought holmes was far different than who fought Ruddock in 19991post prison he became stationary for the most part and a one shot looker.What ppl fail to realize its not just the fighter walking in the ring its the trainer too....Knuckle heads like Rich ghiacetti who was holmes former trainer tried reinventing him...The best Tyson after prison was actually against McNeely as he swarmed with combos unfearful...something happened to him in the 96/97 period and it was more than better opponents...it was substance abuse and weight gain which hindered once what was a great technical fighter.

Yea, that's when he knocked out Spinks in June 88' and he fired Kevin Rooney and anyone related to Cus. (so Don King could control Tyson) This is when Don King brought in other trainers.

Here Spinks v Tyson, June 88

and kevin rooney hugs mike in the end

then his next fight
Bruno v Tyson Feb 89

no kevin rooney, fired, instead Mike is surrounded by yes men, here are snippets from a Rooney interview

Another thing, ever since he left me, Mike stopped moving his head. All of his trainers after me, weren't in his mind like I was in his mind. I was raised by Cus and I think Mike had respect for me and he knew what I was telling him, was the right thing. The average person doesn't know what it takes to become a great fighter. It takes constant discipline and repetition. Boxing is 80% mental and 20% physical. Anyone can get in physical shape.

Since your departure as Mike's coach in 1988, very few trainers have been able to motivate him and keep him in the gym. Why do you think that is?
Mike didn't respect those guys. He knows more than them... and he knows it too. Those trainers that he's had, they don't know anything! Mike couldn't pull that **** with me. When it came to style, technique and all that, he couldn't go head to head with me. When he had those other guys, they didn't know what to tell him! My work with Mike had made the phrase 'Move your head' common now. But, there is much more to it than someone just saying 'Move your head.' When I say 'Move your head', there's a system. There's a secret behind that. Cus was very secretive. He always wanted to keep things secret for his own fighters.

Could Mike be so confident in his abilities that it just makes him lazy?
No. All fighters have a tendency to be lazy. Because Mike has had no guidance since he left me, he just does what he wants! His mind set is 'I'm the man.' But, a lot of fighters get like that. They forget the training that was there when they were just a little pup. Mike won't listen to anybody! If he felt he was in shape and needed to take off 5 or 10 pounds, he would just dry out. When I had Mike, he worked out. There was no need to dry out! He work out hard! That's what made him the best fighter and youngest heavyweight champion in the world.

And this is the most telling

I saw Mike's next fight after Spinks, eight months later. He fought Frank Bruno (their first fight) and his skills had already become diminished. I could tell he wasn't training like he should. If Bruno could fight, he would have knocked Mike out that night. Bruno landed a punch that buckled Mike, but Bruno didn't know what to do after that! When I saw that, I knew it wouldn't be long before he got knocked out. For me, that was sad... to see Mike's skills start to unravel.

so in the end, FUC*, Don King.

 

[Uncle Termite]

Yea, that's when he knocked out Spinks in June 88' and he fired Kevin Rooney and anyone related to Cus. (so Don King could control Tyson) This is when Don King brought in other trainers.

Here Spinks v Tyson, June 88

and kevin rooney hugs mike in the end

then his next fight
Bruno v Tyson Feb 89

no kevin rooney, fired, instead Mike is surrounded by yes men, here are snippets from a Rooney interview



And this is the most telling


so in the end, FUC*, Don King.

All true! find it hard to believe how someone cant really tell the difference btween a rooney trained Tyson and a non one...if anyone in boxing history you could clearly see it was Tyson...he fought to perfect in his prime not to know...if you actually studt film/vids...the rest don't really know the sport with the garbage they post on some of these other boxing sites.lol

 

[Seano]

All true! find it hard to believe how someone cant really tell the difference btween a rooney trained Tyson and a non one...if anyone in boxing history you could clearly see it was Tyson...he fought to perfect in his prime not to know...if you actually studt film/vids...the rest don't really know the sport with the garbage they post on some of these other boxing sites.lol

I think a lot of people recognize it, its just sort of irrelevant. Meaning that you judge a boxer on his resume. An excuse, even a good one, can't really improve a resume.

 

[Lanx]

I think a lot of people recognize it, its just sort of irrelevant. Meaning that you judge a boxer on his resume. An excuse, even a good one, can't really improve a resume.

I've always believed ppl were wrong, or just thought simply "Tyson in his prime", there is no such Tyson, there are in fact 3.
1. Tyson by Cus D'amato & Kevin Rooney from 85 to 88 up to 35-0 Michael Spinks.
2. Tyson by Don King from 89 to 91 yes men camp
3. Tyson by "jail will mess you up" from 95 to 05, not even worth mentioning.

Tyson by Cus is beautiful, while i was at first awe'd by his KO strength like the rest of the world, his defense is amazing. Cus was able to Dog Whisperer Tyson into submission and bend to his every will, then Cus passed that leash onto Kevin Rooney.

Look, i'm not calling Tyson an animal, but he obviously needed to be reigned in, he can't have free will!

What happens when Tyson is stolen by Don King? Tyson, all of a sudden has free will and does this.

And he plays with it, like a big cat! this thing has 5, 5inch KNIVES on each paw, and he treats it like a big puppy, you get stories like this
[YT]X3A_mRekOyY[/YT]
story starts at 1:50

 

[Uncle Termite]

I think a lot of people recognize it, its just sort of irrelevant. Meaning that you judge a boxer on his resume. An excuse, even a good one, can't really improve a resume.

Actually most don't...at least outside of boxing forums....Im not arguing resumes..anyone can have a good resume...Resume is not a skill. Tysons prime is the subject really here and how and what he lost in transition after the Rooney days.A fighter is only relevant when hes relevant....if he wins outside his prime all the more power to him...Tyson did not,it doesn't discredit his legacy really.

 

[kenclasix]

can someone tell me what skills Tyson lost in that 10 years if he lost any.guys with good knowledge for boxing please explain to me the difference .

lifting weights, not jabbing, no peek a boo,no more beautiful footwork ..just looking for quick KO, no MICKEY ROONEY, bad entourage /thread

 

[defjaam]

I was watching Tyson vs. Jesse Ferguson recently and wondered who would win between '86 Tyson vs. '96 Tyson ... I know the answer seems obvious at first glance, but Tyson looked somewhat green in the Ferguson fight, though his general workrate was better ...especially his body punches. In 1996 he was more experienced and was pretty tricky with his hooks, he knew how to close the show as fast as possible. This became an issue when someone didn't go down that easy (Holyfield), because Tyson's workrate had significantly decreased and he wasn't up for even fight.

 

[GolovkinGOAT]

Tyson was a steroid head and networks back then didn’t care for legislation... we’re talking about the MLB and NFL doing it you think networks would care if a fighter was doing it when industry are allowed to bet in boxing? Fuck him and his rape convictions. Probably enjoyed raping dudes in prison given his Lewis press conference and testimonial. Glad Douglas and Lewis KO’d him. Glad Teddy Atlas put him in his place too.

@Seano @Philtard

 

[defjaam]

Tyson was a steroid head and networks back then didn’t care for legislation... we’re talking about the MLB and NFL doing it you think networks would care if a fighter was doing it when industry are allowed to bet in boxing? Fuck him and his rape convictions. Probably enjoyed raping dudes in prison given his Lewis press conference and testimonial. Glad Douglas and Lewis KO’d him. Glad Teddy Atlas put him in his place too.

@Seano @Philtard

You seem like an utterly redarded fuckwit on a mission to contaminate threads.