Opinion Meryl Streep says the term 'toxic masculinity' hurts boys: 'women can be pretty f***ing toxic"

[Serenity Now]

Men are more likely to commit murder, suicide, rape, and genocide. MUCH more likely.

They are also more likely to drop out of school, drive drunk, become addicted to opioids, etc...

Please tell me again, on what planet are the problems related to faulty notions of masculinity not a thousand times more toxic than those related to notions of the feminine???

I'm sure Streep means well, but her comment doesn't stand up to much critical thought. Sorry fellas, facts don't care about your feelings.

Bullshit, Society doesn't give a fuck about the average guy, unless of course they need slaves/cannon fodder for war...Then they are drafted against their will...Literally modern slavery and nobody gives a fuck.


Why do you think in Most Countries, Men lead suicides? Because men are more expendable than women, and society doesn't give a shit about men.....If a guy sucks at life, too fucking bad...If a women sucks at life, BRB getting support from Family/Society/From males trying to get laid/married.


Lets talk about Male Violence..You are right, men lead violence...but it's also because men are treated more harshly....It's black men getting gunned down/harrassed by cops, not women.....Authority has always treated guys like shit and with violence, which leads to more violence.


Also lets be fucking honest....Females reward "toxic Masculinity".....this is such a thing, that our society makes a joke out of it "They are into bad boys".......So Toxic Femininity rewards Toxic Masculinity....So the problem really is humanity, not just guys.

 

[luckyshot]

Bullshit, Society doesn't give a fuck about the average guy, unless of course they need slaves/cannon fodder for war...Then they are drafted against their will...Literally modern slavery and nobody gives a fuck.


Why do you think in Most Countries, Men lead suicides? Because men are more expendable than women, and society doesn't give a shit about men.....If a guy sucks at life, too fucking bad...If a women sucks at life, BRB getting support from Family/Society/From males trying to get laid/married.


Lets talk about Male Violence..You are right, men lead violence...but it's also because men are treated more harshly....It's black men getting gunned down/harrassed by cops, not women.....Authority has always treated guys like shit and with violence, which leads to more violence.


Also lets be fucking honest....Females reward "toxic Masculinity".....this is such a thing, that our society makes a joke out of it "They are into bad boys".......So Toxic Femininity rewards Toxic Masculinity....So the problem really is humanity, not just guys.

Do you nu males/ proud bois ever, and I mean ever get sick of whining?

Here's a question playa, who is in the vast majority of power positions in that society that has traditionally treated males so harshly?

Ie. Who starts the wars, mans (pun intended) the police forces, builds and guards the prisons, writes the draconian laws, etc.

Yeah, I guess the main reason for toxic masculinity is... toxic masculinity.

 

[BjPenn2017]

"Toxic masculinity" is a made up term that is not rooted in reality, it's just like "white privilege" shit is about as real as the easter bunny or Santa, it's nothing more than a cop out. I laugh at people whenever they bring those terms up for being such idiots for believing in false, made up things.

 

[Serenity Now]

Do you nu males/ proud bois ever, and I mean ever get sick of whining?

Here's a question playa, who is in the vast majority of power positions in that society that has traditionally treated males so harshly?

Ie. Who starts the wars, mans (pun intended) the police forces, builds and guards the prisons, writes the draconian laws, etc.

Yeah, I guess the main reason for toxic masculinity is... toxic masculinity.

^^^^You're not gonna shame with your "Human Toxicity" for standing up for 100s of millions of men of all colors who have been enslaved to fight wars thru out world history.

You're right Elitist Men used these men...You're right, they were men, Elitist old men......Why did these Power hungry men do what they did? Toxic Femininity rewards them...These powerful men are rewarded by society/women.....So lets not act like Women have nothing to do with how things are...There's a reason why "They are into bad boys" is a thing, there's a reason why Women Marrying up is a thing(motivates guys to be powerhungry), there's a reason why some women love jewelry all this bullshit things(Which the elitist men bought for em back in the day)....Sorry but women are in the middle of all of this.


Like I said, this is a Human Toxicity problem and women are in the middle of it.

 

[Rational Poster]

"Toxic masculinity" is a made up term that is not rooted in reality, it's just like "white privilege" shit is about as real as the easter bunny or Santa, it's nothing more than a cop out. I laugh at people whenever they bring those terms up for being such idiots for believing in false, made up things.

All terms are made up terms not rooted in reality. All terms are figments of the human imagination.

What a stupid thing to say.

 

[luckyshot]

^^^^You're not gonna shame with your "Human Toxicity" for standing up for 100s of millions of men of all colors who have been enslaved to fight wars thru out world history.

Ugh.

You're right Elitist Men used these men...You're right, they were men, Elitist old men......Why did these Power hungry men do what they did? Toxic Femininity rewards them...These powerful men are rewarded by society/women.

Lol, so the pussy made them do it? Literally, Hitler just needed to exterminate those 12 million people so he could get his dick wet?

Lol. Just, lol.

There's a reason why "They are into bad boys" is a thing, there's a reason why Women Marrying up is a thing(motivates guys to be powerhungry), there's a reason why some women love jewelry all this bullshit things(Which the elitist men bought for em back in the day)....Sorry but women are in the middle of all of this.

Every guy I know (including myself) who has a decent job is married or has been married or is voluntarily single. Get a trade, be able to support yourself, and you will have ample opportunity to pass on your genes and (if you play your cards right) have a shot at a happy, stable home life.

Childcare is a massive fact in a woman's life. I cannot blame women for not wanting to have to take care of their kids and their partners.

/Pep talk

 

[Serenity Now]

Ugh.

Lol, so the pussy made them do it? Literally, Hitler just needed to exterminate those 12 million people so he could get his dick wet?

Lol. That moment when you realize you are arguing with an incel.


Every guy I know (including myself) who has a decent job is married or has been married or is voluntarily single. Get a trade, be able to support yourself, and you will have ample opportunity to pass on your genes and (if you play your cards right) have a shot at a happy, stable home life.

Childcare is a massive fact in a woman's life. I cannot blame women for not wanting to have to take care of their kids and their partners.

/Pep talk

Like I said society(which women are part of) rewarded them....Hitler was rewarded by the german people(again that includes women since you can't comprehend that)....That's a fact.


ORLY? an Average Job leads to an Average life.......never knew this <[analyzed}>

That isn't the point....The point is society/women reward powerhungry men, which are the cause of "toxic Masculinity"...if they weren't rewarded, it wouldn't be a huge fucking problem.


Again this is a humanity problem, "toxic Femininity" is a part of it.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I mean....she doesn't know what she's talking about, but I trust that it comes from the right place. Of course women can be toxic, just as men can be toxic for reasons completely unrelated to masculinity.



Ripskater was a more convincing troll.



The problem is that that term ("toxic femininity") is never used in any ways that make sense. That is, it's never used to criticize female behaviors that stem from typically feminine behavior. I mean....I guess you could criticize a woman for being averse to manual labor and call that toxic femininity.

But what about using emotions instead of logic?

I know Oprah told them that was good and right, but.....

Is that toxic feminity, or is it sexist?

 

[luckyshot]

Like I said society(which women are part of) rewarded them....Hitler was rewarded by the german people(again that includes women since you can't comprehend that)....That's a fact.


ORLY? an Average Job leads to an Average life.......never knew this <[analyzed}>

That isn't the point....The point is society/women reward powerhungry men, which are the cause of "toxic Masculinity"...if they weren't rewarded, it wouldn't be a huge fucking problem.


Again this is a humanity problem, "toxic Femininity" is a part of it.

So, are murders and rapists "rewarded by society" when they are thrown into jail for life sentences?

Are suicides rewarded by society?

Are drunk drivers and opioid addicts rewarded by society?

You are seeing the whole world through this one structuralist equation that simply doesn't apply that much to most people. Yes, rich and powerful people are "rewarded by society" in all sorts of ways, and society includes women. But that vast majority of guys are just dudes... and it's mostly just dudes that are doing the bad shit like shooting up public places, committing suicide, driving drunk, etc.

You know, toxic stuff. And they do this much more than average girls.

That isn't the point....The point is society/women reward powerhungry men, which are the cause of "toxic Masculinity"...if they weren't rewarded, it wouldn't be a huge fucking problem.

Is the phrase "self responsibility" in your lexicon?

 

[sloppypie]

That isn't the point....The point is society/women reward powerhungry men, which are the cause of "toxic Masculinity"...if they weren't rewarded, it wouldn't be a huge fucking problem.

i'm not sure where all your anger and hostility comes from, but you have a really warped sense of this dynamic and it seems like it's mostly based on your exposure to the internet and what other people tell you, not in real life. you likely haven't tried at all in real life when it comes to relationships and women (or men, whatever you are into. i don't judge).

it sounds like you want superficial supermodel types. well yea, if those are the kinds of women you go after, all you are looking at are women into men for all the wrong reasons.

there's plenty of great women out there. i've dated many. my friends have dated many. many of my friends are women. they don't chase after men for power, or money, or whatever else some incel forum taught you. they just want a decent guy that isn't a giant pussy. a guy who has other priorities than just them and don't cling to them like a small boy.

this "problem" is an exaggeration of an alt right fantasy, as all their "problems" and "solutions" are. get grounded in reality a bit because you are cutting at your own tether when it comes to your perception of the world.

also, people in that stratosphere of "power and wealth" aren't exactly happy. their relationships are superficial and phony, people constantly after their money or using them to advance their own position, and people in that realm have a high degree of depression and substance abuse. the "reward" structure is all fake. why you think the world revolves around that is beyond me. the world for THOSE people might revolve around that, but you can choose to flat out not care about any of that and worry about yourself.

i doubt you'll listen to anything i say because the angry bitter caricature you are portraying is either a facade for some paid troll job you are doing, or you are so egotistical and angry that it's like talking to a brick wall. either way, i hope you reflect on what i wrote a bit and seek a different perspective on life.

 

[Serenity Now]

So, are murders and rapists "rewarded by society" when they are thrown into jail for life sentences?

Are suicides rewarded by society?

Are drunk drivers and opioid addicts rewarded by society?

You are seeing the whole world through this one structuralist equation that simply doesn't apply that much to most people. Yes, rich and powerful people are "rewarded by society" in all sorts of ways, and society includes women. But that vast majority of guys are just dudes... and it's mostly just dudes that are doing the bad shit like shooting up public places, committing suicide, driving drunk, etc.

You know, toxic stuff. And they do this much more than average girls.

LMFAO you just mentioned Hitler....Who was one of the best murderers of all times....yes society rewarded him ...Look at the pic, women are approving of his Toxic Masculinity, just like the guys are.

...I already said, suicides are higher for men in all nations because society doesn't give a fuck about em compared to women....I suspect Alcoholism/Opiods are also caused by this.


My point is clear...Women/society are rewarding these power hungry men......Look at inner city crime, guess what? Lots of the criminal guys get power/money and have hot chicks(which is why if you have no opportunity, you get into crime)....Are we really gonna pretend that women aren't rewarding these evil guys?

Human Toxicity includes both men/women.....Nobody is innocent in this.

 

[Rational Poster]

First let me say that I support women having equal opportunity in every facet.

Having said that, certain women and certain segments of society need to be very careful with some of the ---for lack of a better word-- male bashing going on. I am not saying the people participating in this represent a majority, or even a sizable minority of the population in general. But the sad fact is that with the proliferation of the internet and social media.......they don't need to.

Women are often chided for their 'temper tantrums'. But women's temper tantrums pale in scale and scope to men's. A good male temper tantrum can kill dozens of people or more. And that is just your average run of the mill male dude. When men with real wealth and power have temper tantrums, the landscape of the planet can change. When was the last time a female temper tantrum took out 20 or 30 souls?

The shit women are bitching about now relating to men is really not that much different than the stuff they have always been bitching about. What is fundamentally different is the size of the audience their bitching is reaching.

lol

You: "Don't criticize men about toxic masculinity because they might kill you and dozens of other innocent bystanders."


Me:

 

[luckyshot]

i'm not sure where all your anger and hostility comes from, but you have a really warped sense of this dynamic and it seems like it's mostly based on your exposure to the internet and what other people tell you, not in real life. you likely haven't tried at all in real life when it comes to relationships and women (or men, whatever you are into. i don't judge).

it sounds like you want superficial supermodel types. well yea, if those are the kinds of women you go after, all you are looking at are women into men for all the wrong reasons.

there's plenty of great women out there. i've dated many. my friends have dated many. many of my friends are women. they don't chase after men for power, or money, or whatever else some incel forum taught you. they just want a decent guy that isn't a giant pussy. a guy who has other priorities than just them and don't cling to them like a small boy.

this "problem" is an exaggeration of an alt right fantasy, as all their "problems" and "solutions" are. get grounded in reality a bit because you are cutting at your own tether when it comes to your perception of the world.

also, people in that stratosphere of "power and wealth" aren't exactly happy. their relationships are superficial and phony, people constantly after their money or using them to advance their own position, and people in that realm have a high degree of depression and substance abuse. the "reward" structure is all fake. why you think the world revolves around that is beyond me. the world for THOSE people might revolve around that, but you can choose to flat out not care about any of that and worry about yourself.

i doubt you'll listen to anything i say because the angry bitter caricature you are portraying is either a facade for some paid troll job you are doing, or you are so egotistical and angry that it's like talking to a brick wall. either way, i hope you reflect on what i wrote a bit and seek a different perspective on life.

Lol, exactly. I'm pretty sure my wife didn't marry me for my power and money. Or my looks, for that matter.







I have a hog in my pants, of course, so that helps.

 

[Serenity Now]

i'm not sure where all your anger and hostility comes from, but you have a really warped sense of this dynamic and it seems like it's mostly based on your exposure to the internet and what other people tell you, not in real life. you likely haven't tried at all in real life when it comes to relationships and women (or men, whatever you are into. i don't judge).

it sounds like you want superficial supermodel types. well yea, if those are the kinds of women you go after, all you are looking at are women into men for all the wrong reasons.

there's plenty of great women out there. i've dated many. my friends have dated many. many of my friends are women. they don't chase after men for power, or money, or whatever else some incel forum taught you. they just want a decent guy that isn't a giant pussy. a guy who has other priorities than just them and don't cling to them like a small boy.

this "problem" is an exaggeration of an alt right fantasy, as all their "problems" and "solutions" are. get grounded in reality a bit because you are cutting at your own tether when it comes to your perception of the world.

also, people in that stratosphere of "power and wealth" aren't exactly happy. their relationships are superficial and phony, people constantly after their money or using them to advance their own position, and people in that realm have a high degree of depression and substance abuse. the "reward" structure is all fake. why you think the world revolves around that is beyond me. the world for THOSE people might revolve around that, but you can choose to flat out not care about any of that and worry about yourself.

i doubt you'll listen to anything i say because the angry bitter caricature you are portraying is either a facade for some paid troll job you are doing, or you are so egotistical and angry that it's like talking to a brick wall. either way, i hope you reflect on what i wrote a bit and seek a different perspective on life.

Im not saying there isn't great women out there...I know there is....just like there's great guys out there, that doesn't mean there isn't assholes as well.

Im not saying all women chase for the most alpha/powerful dude ever......But are we gonna pretend that if you have money, you won't get more respect from society(that includes women)...Fact is Rich/power gets you respect/choice in this society thus powerhungry guys are rewarded, thats my point....It only motivates individuals to become more powerhungry.

I never said this was the biggest problem in the world...Im not an alt-righter....I simply said Toxic Femininity is a thing that goes hand and hand with Toxic Masculinity, and overall is a human toxicity problem.

Yes, you can choose to not be part of that "power/wealth" life, plenty of people do....but Who does society reward into controlling our society? Those same "power/wealthy" people....So they are rewarded.

I reflected, seems like you did alot of assumptions on what I was saying...Sorry for deeply offending you.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Men are more likely to commit murder, suicide, rape, and genocide. MUCH more likely.

They are also more likely to drop out of school, drive drunk, become addicted to opioids, etc...

Please tell me again, on what planet are the problems related to faulty notions of masculinity not a thousand times more toxic than those related to notions of the feminine???

I'm sure Streep means well, but her comment doesn't stand up to much critical thought. Sorry fellas, facts don't care about your feelings.

the problem is not with your stats. Bad people do bad things. Women can do many types of bad things too even if they tend to be less of a direct physical nature.


The problem is with the term. Masculinity can be a positive thing. We can string together a bunch of adjectives to demonstrate that. So normalizing the term 'toxic masculinity' suggests that masculinity is inherently toxic and needs to be purged or fixed and that is not accurate.

You can just imagine if a similar term of toxic womanhood or femininity was used generally in speech but then when a complaint was raised there was a 'oh we are just speaking about these aspects'.

 

[luckyshot]

the problem is not with your stats. Bad people do bad things. Women can do many types of bad things too even if they tend to be less of a direct physical nature.


The problem is with the term. Masculinity can be a positive thing. We can string together a bunch of adjectives to demonstrate that. So normalizing the term 'toxic masculinity' suggests that masculinity is inherently toxic and needs to be purged or fixed and that is not accurate.

You can just imagine if a similar term of toxic womanhood or femininity was used generally in speech but then when a complaint was raised there was a 'oh we are just speaking about these aspects'.

What is "toxic"? Toxic is poison. In other words, something that kills things. I hear "toxic masculinity," and I think "things that men do more than women [masculinity/ male] that cause death and physical harm [toxic/ deadly] ."

I think that is a pretty reasonable interpretation of the term based on the meaning of the words. And it also happens to be statistically supportable in MANY ways. I don't hear from the term that all masculinity is toxic-- just that there is something that is leading many men to toxic (literally, deadly) behaviors. No need to get defensive about it; it's just fact.

The real problem is that men immediately go into a knee-jerk defensiveness and want to argue the semantics rather than saying, "Hmm, yeah, we do seem to be fucked up in a lot of obvious ways that women aren't."

Maybe if men did that instead of bothsideing the shit out of everything, masculinity would actually get a little less... toxic.

It would certainly be more manly.

 

[Broke Lester]

Lol, exactly. I'm pretty sure my wife didn't marry me for my power and money. Or my looks, for that matter.







I have a hog in my pants, of course, so that helps.

Or she is a hog herself

 

[Wingslaught]

What is "toxic"? Toxic is poison. In other words, something that kills things. I hear "toxic masculinity," and I think "things that men do more than women [masculinity/ male] that cause death and physical harm [toxic/ deadly] ."

I think that is a pretty reasonable interpretation of the term based on the meaning of the words. And it also happens to be statistically supportable in MANY ways. I don't hear from the term that all masculinity is toxic-- just that there is something that is leading many men to toxic (literally, deadly) behaviors. No need to get defensive about it; it's just fact.

The real problem is that men immediately go into a knee-jerk defensiveness and want to argue the semantics rather than saying, "Hmm, yeah, we do seem to be fucked up in a lot of obvious ways that women aren't."

Maybe if men did that instead of bothsideing the shit out of everything, masculinity would actually get a little less... toxic.

It would certainly be more manly.

You have a point I have to say with the way you've decided to define the term, but really without men going around wrecking shit humanity (to include women) would have gone extinct long ago from being killed off by non-human predators. Passivity doesn't pay off in the natural world.

 

[luckyshot]

You have a point I have to say with the way you've decided to define the term, but really without men going around wrecking shit humanity (to include women) would have gone extinct long ago from being killed off by non-human predators. Passivity doesn't pay off in the natural world.

Sure. We are evolved animals. Therefore every peculiarity about us can be correlated to evolutionary factors. But— like our desire to stuff ourselves with as many calories as possible— many evolutionarily behavior features are no longer beneficial to the survival in the contemporary environment. Evolve or die has always been the name of the game. It continues to be.

Or she is a hog herself

Lol, let’s just say she’s better looking than me.

 

[sloppypie]

Fact is Rich/power gets you respect/choice in this society thus powerhungry guys are rewarded, thats my point....It only motivates individuals to become more powerhungry.

you say this like it is some kind of revolutionary insight. power has always been a detrimental component of human societies. there's a lot of things that get you respect that otherwise shouldn't - being good looking, or wearing a suit. these are inherent flaws in society. my issue with your rant is you want to equate women as being some kind of unique problem that must be dealt with. if i am reading that wrong then i apologize, but you seem to have a problem with there being a focus on male related issues instead of women, and it comes off more as some deep seeded hatred against women than anything else.

nothing you wrote offended me. quite the opposite, i sense a lot of bitter resentment, and from a lot of guys. i feel like the more appropriate response these days is to just address their resentment rather than ridicule it like i normally would do,

because it is a shitty world, and a lot of young men don't know how to find their place in it. they let society dictate who they are and what they should be, and it's a sad thing for me to witness. i'm a person who does the opposite, and i make my choices and i live and deal with them. and while maybe my life isn't perfect, i feel pretty content and happy because i am in control of my life. i think it's a good lesson to share with other men in a context away from what a society saturated with sex and confusing messages does to young men.