Meme Thread v16: Korean Summit Edition

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nac386 said:
Undeveloped land and building civilization? Lol. Right, anonymous internet troll, all your ancestors were on the Mayflower in 1620.
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All of America wasn't built and colonized in 1620.
 
nac386 said:
All of America still isn't built.

What is your heritage?
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Mongrel. English, Irish mostly. A dash of native american and a little mystery on my mother's father and his background.
 
Seano said:
Mongrel. English, Irish mostly. A dash of native american and a little mystery on my mother's father and his background.
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You'd agree that the Irish did not come here to undeveloped land and build civilization, right? They came from an awful situation, to a new situation that was full of opportunity, mostly in the 1800s and early 1900s.

They were shit on too, pretty badly in fact. Same as the Italians and Sicilians in the early 1900s. They did not come to undeveloped land and build a civilization, they arrived at an existing civilization, experienced prejudice, and then added their own cultures to the melting pot.
 
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nac386 said:
You'd agree that the Irish did not come here to undeveloped land and build civilization, right? They came from an awful situation, to a new situation that was full of opportunity, mostly in the late 1800 and early 1900s.
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Well this is just a broad generalization. My Irish ancestors came in the late 1800s and took the train west to start a farm in South Dakota. Trying to eke out a life on the prairie wasn’t exactly easy, just as an example they didn’t even have electricity until my grandma was in her late teens.
 
nac386 said:
You'd agree that the Irish did not come here to undeveloped land and build civilization, right? They came from an awful situation, to a new situation that was full of opportunity, mostly in the 1800s and early 1900s.

They were shit on too, pretty badly in fact. Same as the Italians and Sicilians in the early 1900s. They did not come to undeveloped land and build a civilization, they arrived at an existing civilization, experienced prejudice, and then added their own cultures to the melting pot.
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Smack dab in the middle of the industrial revolution. I'm not really anti immigration but I don't think immigrants contribute like they did 200 years ago. I'm glad we can help people live better lives but it is more of a drain than a benefit.
 
jonharrison said:
Well this is just a broad generalization. My Irish ancestors came in the late 1800s and took the train west to start a farm in South Dakota. Trying to eke out a life on the prairie wasn’t exactly easy, just as an example they didn’t even have electricity until my grandma was in her late teens.
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We are talking on a larger scale than that. As in, America existed, it was civilized and had government, a voting process, a viable economic system, etc.

Of course life isn't easy for immigrants, it never was. But they come to a new place, and they find a way to carve out their American dream just like your grandparents. What you just described is a pretty typical immigrant story right up until today.

Obviously you are aware that current immigrants are working farms and starting businesses, just like they always have.
 
Seano said:
Smack dab in the middle of the industrial revolution. I'm not really anti immigration but I don't think immigrants contribute like they did 200 years ago. I'm glad we can help people live better lives but it is more of a drain than a benefit.
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That is exactly what they said about the Irish and Italians. In reality, they were just being blinded by their prejudice and ignoring all that they contributed. It took a long time before Irish and Italians were accepted.

All across my area, which is pretty prosperous overall, immigrants own stores and businesses. How is that not contributing?
 
Seano said:
Smack dab in the middle of the industrial revolution. I'm not really anti immigration but I don't think immigrants contribute like they did 200 years ago. I'm glad we can help people live better lives but it is more of a drain than a benefit.
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"I'm not against immigration but I'm going to say some really dumb textbook xenophobic shit anyway"
 
Here, this isn't a meme, but it's real life.

The United States is currently home to more than 2.9 million foreign-born entrepreneurs, a group whose companies generated $65.5 billion in business income in 2014 alone. That year, immigrants made up 20.6 percent of all entrepreneurs in the country, despite representing 13.2 percent of the U.S. population

The report draws on the American Community Survey, the Survey of Small Business Owners, and other publicly available data sources to shed light on the real and meaningful role immigrants have played founding American companies in recent years. It reveals that in 2014, 19.1 percent of entrepreneurs in the United States hailed from the Middle East and North Africa, 11.1 percent were foreign-born Hispanics, and 10.6 percent were Asian immigrants. This was while the national rate of entrepreneurship among working Americans was 9.5 percent.

https://research.newamericaneconomy...-immigrant-owned-businesses-new-report-finds/
 
nac386 said:
We are talking on a larger scale than that. As in, America existed, it was civilized and had government, a voting process, a viable economic system, etc.

Of course life isn't easy for immigrants, it never was. But they come to a new place, and they find a way to carve out their American dream just like your grandparents. What you just described is a pretty typical immigrant story right up until today.

Obviously you are aware that current immigrants are working farms and starting businesses, just like they always have.
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I certainly am aware of that, and I’m a wholehearted supporter of immigration. You can’t use stereotypes to argue against someone also using stereotypes, though. Your point was trying to say that his ancestors had it easy and came to a country where they didn’t experience hardship because New York and Boston were already developed. Like I said, there were numerous Irish for whom that wasn’t the case. There was very little in the way of development for much of the western United States until quite recently. Running water, electricity, automobiles, even basic things like consistent mail service, and professional law enforcement were all relatively scarce for large swaths of the country until the 30s and 40s. It’s dishonest to try to waive those hardships away by making blanket stereotypes, and doesn’t really improve your argument for immigration. Like you said, there are still tremendous hardships immigrants face today, dismissing the hardships of previous generations doesn’t change that. Use the actual, valid, argument that immigrants DO contribute to the continued development of the country, don’t make the argument that “well your ancestors had it easy, so what do you know” when you don’t know if that’s true or not.
 
Another source.

https://hbr.org/2016/10/immigrants-play-a-disproportionate-role-in-american-entrepreneurship

Here are some key findings:

1. Immigrants constitute 15% of the general U.S. workforce, but they account for around a quarter of U.S. entrepreneurs (which we define as the top three initial earners in a new business). This is comparable to what we see in innovation and patent filings, where immigrants also account for about a quarter of U.S. inventors.
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So immigrants are not only carrying their fair load, they are actually over-represented in starting businesses and filing patents.

A complete side note, just last week an Indian man bought the 7-11 near my house and overnight the entire store is much cleaner, all the shelves are stocked, and a guy works the register that actually seems like he has interest in running a quality store.
 
jonharrison said:
I certainly am aware of that, and I’m a wholehearted supporter of immigration. You can’t use stereotypes to argue against someone also using stereotypes, though. Your point was trying to say that his ancestors had it easy and came to a country where they didn’t experience hardship because New York and Boston were already developed. Like I said, there were numerous Irish for whom that wasn’t the case. There was very little in the way of development for much of the western United States until quite recently. Running water, electricity, automobiles, even basic things like consistent mail service, and professional law enforcement were all relatively scarce for large swaths of the country until the 30s and 40s. It’s dishonest to try to waive those hardships away by making blanket stereotypes, and doesn’t really improve your argument for immigration. Like you said, there are still tremendous hardships immigrants face today, dismissing the hardships of previous generations doesn’t change that. Use the actual, valid, argument that immigrants DO contribute to the continued development of the country, don’t make the argument that “well your ancestors had it easy, so what do you know” when you don’t know if that’s true or not.
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I said nothing of the sort. This is entirely made up. I actually consistently say the opposite of what you are claiming here, lol. I always point to how hard it was being an Irish or Italian immigrant, that is my background as well. It's hard work, and you deal with prejudice. That is why I don't appreciate people shitting on current immigrants who are in the same position.
 
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