1. Season 7 of the International Shoop League is now active! Section A » Section B »

MCT Oil

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by MadDildo, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. MadDildo

    MadDildo Shame Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    45,511
    Likes Received:
    47,212
    Location:
    NorCal
    When I came into this forum, one of the first dialogues I held was an argument with Kabuki over Muscle Milk. I've been too lazy to cite this passage from "Power Eating" (my primary nutritional reference), but I've got the downtime to do it tonight. This summary basically explains why both our positions on Muscle Milk have validity, but either must be understood to be properly applied to your diet.


    MEDIUM-CHAIN TRIGLYCERIDE OIL

    Processed mainly from coconut oil, medium-chain triglyceride oil (MCT oil) is a special type of dietary fat that was first formulated in the 1950's by the pharmaceutical industry for patients who had trouble digesting regular fats. Still used in medical settings, MCT oil is also a popular fitness supplement, marketed as a fat burner, muscle builder, and energy source.
    At the molecular level, MCT oil is structured quite differently from conventional fats such as butter, margarine, and vegetable oil. Conventional fats are made up of long chains, with 16 or more carbon atoms strung together, and are thus known as long-chain triglycerides (LCTs). Body fat is also an LCT. MCT oil, on the other hand, has a much shorter carbon chain of only 6 to 12 carbon atoms, which is why it is described as a medium-chain triglyceride.
    As a result of molecular difference, MCTs are digested, transported, and metabolized much more quickly than fatty acids from regular oils or fats, and thus have some interesting properties. To begin with, MCTs are burned in the body like carbohydrates. Unlike conventional fats, MCTs are not stored as body fat but are shuttled directly into the cells to be burned for energy. In fact, MCT oil is burned so quickly that its calories are turned into body heat- a process known as thermogenesis, which boosts the metabolic rate. The higher your metabolism, the more calories your body burns.
    Does that mean if you take MCT oil you can rev up your metabolism and therefore burn more fat? Researchers at the University of Rochester looked into this possibility. In an experiment involving seven healthy men at the UofR, they tested whether a single meal of MCTs would increase the metabolic rate more than an LCT meal would. The men ate test meals containing 48 grams of MCT oil or 45 grams of corn oil, given in random order on separate days. In the study, metabolic rate increased 12 percent over six hours after the men ate the MCT meals but increased only 4 percent after LCTs were consumed. What's more, concentrations of triglycerides in plasma (the liquid portion of blood) were elevated 68 percent after the LCT meal, but did not change after the MCT meal. These findings led researchers to speculate that replacing the LCTs with MCTs over a long period of time might be beneficial in weight loss.
    Other researchers aren't so sure. In a study at Calgary Univeristy in Albert, Canada, healthy adults were placed on a low-carbohydrate diet supplemented with MCT oil. The researchers found that the diet had no real effect on elevating the metabolism. The calories burned over a 24-hour period were less than 1 percent of total caloric intake. However, there was a decrease in muscle protein burned for energy. Although MCT might not be a fat burner per se, it may help preserve lean mass by inhibiting its breakdown.
    In most studies on MCT oil and fat burning, volunteers ingest huge amounts of fat-- usually 30 grams or more-- to bring on metabolic-boosting results. Such amounts are just not tolerable for most people, because too much MCT oil produces intestinal discomfort and diarrhea. In my opinion, taking such huge doses of MCT oil to spurn fat burning just isn't practical.
    There's another problem with using MCT oil to try to burn fat. The recommended way to take MCT oil is with carbohydrates, a practice that prevents ketosis. In ketosis, by-products of fat metaoblism called ketones build up if carbs aren't available to assist in the final stages of fat breakdown. But when MCTs are taken with carbs, there is no effect on fat-burning whatsoever. Here's why: Carbs trigger the release of insulin, which inhibits the mobilization of fat for energy. Thus, there's simply no benefit to the use of MCT oil as a fat-burner. You have to do it the old-fashioned way, by exercising and watching your diet.
    Another claim attached to MCT oil is that it helps you put on muscle. But there are no controlled studies to prove this. Using some MCT oil to sneak in extra calories for harder workouts makes sense, though. Go east at first by taking one-half tablespoon to one tablespoon a day. Its fast absorption can cause cramping and diarrhea if you eat too much. Before experimenting with MCT oil, get your doctor's okay.
     
  2. Cooz

    Cooz Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    616
    Location:
    Greatest Country on Earth!
    From the sound of it you don't seem to promote this product, but do you (or anybody who looks in on this thread) know a good source where I could get MCT? I'm one of those people who doesn't digest regular fats too well.
     
  3. MadDildo

    MadDildo Shame Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    45,511
    Likes Received:
    47,212
    Location:
    NorCal
    Most guys who use it get it in their Muscle Milk. They say you can take Muscle Milk after a workout, but I think it's best before. Cytosport is on top of things, at least, because they keep the carbs low (that's one of the reasons I don't like it as an MRP, though, I prefer it be called a "pre-workout" powder...but I guess that wouldn't be great for marketing, I dunno).

    This is the cheapest straight-up MCT oil I know:
    http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=959

    Remember, although a single serving is a tablespoon, that is only 14g, but most studies showing metabolic increases used over 30g doses. That's probably 1/4-1/2 the fat you should get for the day- MCT or otherwise (if you're trying to lose weight).
     
  4. MikeMartial

    MikeMartial Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,401
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Lactate Threshold
    Bumping because this is a great article I found while searching for posts on coconut oil.

    Muscle Milk aside, does anyone utilize coconut oil in their day-to-day intake?
     
  5. stewy37

    stewy37 Guest

    Not day to day, but I use it in various recipes. usually about once a week.
     
  6. Cooz

    Cooz Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    616
    Location:
    Greatest Country on Earth!
    wow..i looke different back then!
     
  7. MadDildo

    MadDildo Shame Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    45,511
    Likes Received:
    47,212
    Location:
    NorCal
    Hmmm...that's a stupid blanket assumption. This must be from back when I was hardcore for 15%-25% total fat. I've placed my current ceiling for fat around 250g/day (thats for me, though, not for you).

    Anyway, Terumo said he thought Muscle Milk and MCT's were useful for guys wanting to gain weight without adding fat. It's simple: MCT's aren't likely to be stored as fat, but they pack a higher density of calories in a smaller volume of food.
     
  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,380
    Likes Received:
    3,236
    Location:
    Vegas
    Does the overall caloric addition of MCT's count when it takes more calories to burn them than they're worth?
     
  9. MadDildo

    MadDildo Shame Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    45,511
    Likes Received:
    47,212
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yeah, you gotta add them, same as vegetables like celery that take more calories to digest than they contribute.

    I'm not certain MCTs raise the metabolism that greatly, K. Have you seen something that says that? Also, remember that the metabolism-boosting effects may be diminished in the presence of carbohydrates.
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,380
    Likes Received:
    3,236
    Location:
    Vegas
    No no, I don't think they "raise" metabolism at all. Just that they count among the family of "negative calorie" foods.
     
  11. erco

    erco Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,092
    Likes Received:
    1
    Superfluous bump.

    I'm helping my little cousin gain some weight and pack on some muscle. He's a former high school cross country runner, and is now going to college in September for engineering. Suffice it to say, he's a skinny Asian kid. Question is, how viable would it be to force gainer foods like coconut oil and muscle milk down his gullet, or would he better off eating a bag of potatoes every day?
     
  12. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,898
    Likes Received:
    3
    As always, Berardi. "Scrawny to Brawny" to be exact.
     
  13. STWACOACH**

    STWACOACH** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    When loosing weight, fat grams do not need to be that low. In fact in krebs cycles etc, upping the fat, promotes fat loss, not hinders it. A simple search shows that. I continually have guys cutting on 125-150 grams a day of healthy fats, almonds, avocados, olive oil etc, while keeping veggies very high.

    One thing to remember is that the majority of the fats in MM, are most likely not even MCT's. Do I drink it? Yes I do, for my own reasons, types of protein, needed amounts of fats for my training etc. It's not a bad drink you guys, but not the best one out there either. Each diet is individual.



    Shit, my bad mick, I just saw your new post taking back the fat grams. My bad dude.:icon_chee
     
  14. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,898
    Likes Received:
    3
  15. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,898
    Likes Received:
    3
    Very true. To go by what what it says on the package, 80% of the saturated fat in MM is MCTs, so .8x8g~6.5g MCTS in a two scoop serving. That's only about a third of the total fat content.
     
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,380
    Likes Received:
    3,236
    Location:
    Vegas
    There's no such thing as a "best" entity for protein/MRP/weight gainer powder conumption. It's relative. However I still am of the opinion that MM is one of the most versatile. I've seen it used in bulking for football, as well as cutting for figure competition (Manager of the store I worked at in Ft. Lauderdale). Because it still has one of the more comprehensive macronutrient ratio profiles.

    One thing I think should be mentioned in here though is how needlessly overlooked fats are. It's the MOST ignored thing in eating regimens with greens consumption as a close second. A lot of you guys could stand some reading as to the role fats play in relation to absorption and facilitation of proper use of other nutrients. It's more complicated and crucial than people think. Without fats in a meal, a lot of other good nutrients simply go to waste.
     
  17. STWACOACH**

    STWACOACH** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree which is why I still take it, although there are times where I would cut it out in a pre fight area. But that would have a lot of variables.

    Almost everyone overlooks fats, it's the whole fat free craze america went through some time ago. When I finally convinced my ex to switch to about 6-8 cups of fiberous veggies a day, and a lot of healthy fats, a lot for her at least, with healthy meats, she changed dramatically. It works that way 99% of the time. Ignorance though, well it's the number one killer in America lol.
     
  18. erco

    erco Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    3,092
    Likes Received:
    1
    What kinda gun is Ignorance packin' these days?


    I love Muscle Milk. It still bewilders me that it can be both a quality and tastey product. Either way, I'll be forcing it onto him for a variety of reasons, but mainly because he can toss it into a breakfast shake to get some extra fats and carbs in addition to the whey/casein blend.

    My current problem is trying to convince my cousin to build real, functional muscle, and not bullshit beach muscles. He's a bit obsessed with curls...sigh.
     
  19. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,898
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah, getting people to understand that fat does not = getting fat is like pulling teeth.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.