Opinion Masvidal roasting communists on Fox

Bojka said:
Yeah... it was.

During the period of its existence, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was by area the world’s largest country.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Soviet-Union

And you can talk about its vast size all you want. China has 1.4 billion people.
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It was a Union of several countries that functioned like one country in some sense.

China's wasn't an economic superpower until Deng enacted economic liberalisation. Western brands weren't flocking to the Soviet Union; they weren't allowed in (in any meaningfull capacity). The Soviet economy was State run. China allows market competition , domestic entrepreneurship and Western brands to turn profits.
 
MicroBrew said:
It was a Union of several countries that functioned like one country in some sense.

China's wasn't an economic superpower until Deng enacted economic liberalisation. Western brands weren't flocking to the Soviet Union; they weren't allowed in (in any meaningfull capacity). The Soviet economy was State run. China allows market competition , domestic entrepreneurship and Western brands to turn profits.
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You are just pivoting away from my point. I don't care about whether China is technically communist or not. I only care that you said that you can't become the 2nd largest economy while communist.

The Soviet Union was one country. It was analogous to the UK, not the EU. Yes, it was large and multi-ethnic, but China also has 1.4 billion people. Both are/were unique in different ways.
 
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SmilinDesperado said:
Then it isn't communism.
These debates get bogged down, because it seems like whenever someone says "That's not communism", you guys think that's because we're defending communism.
It's pretty hard to discuss something when people won't even define the basic terms correctly.
None of our economies are just one thing, so what is the point in slapping on these big "scary" words ?

China can not be called communist in the way that you all act like communism is and ALSO have the 2nd largest economy in the world. To keep talking about the "CCP" in this matter is just culture war nonsense. I don't get the point of sticking to these useless criticisms instead of criticizing the countless legitimate bad shit that China actually does.
Instead of doing that, we waste time having to talk about how China, Biden, and Bernie are all evil commies.
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My point is that what you probably consider true Communism can't and won't exist outside theory, which is something that gets proven each time any regime tries it.
 
Bojka said:
You are just pivoting away from my point. I don't care about whether China is technically communist or not. I only care that you said that you can't become the 2nd largest economy while communist.

The Soviet Union was one country. It was analogous to the UK, not the EU. Yes, it was large and multi-ethnic, but China also has 1.4 billion people. Both are/were unique in different ways.
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It isn't analogus to the UK because of the sheer size and population numbers. Ofcourse China's population numbers plays a big part in them being the 2nd largest economy but it wouldn't be if they had stuck to their Post war Maoist economic model. China's GDP and standard of living rose sharply after the economic reforms which saw the government allowing private enterprise and Western market access.
 
MicroBrew said:
It isn't analogus to the UK because of the sheer size and population numbers. Ofcourse China's population numbers plays a big part in them being the 2nd largest economy but it wouldn't be if they had stuck to their Post war Maoist economic model. China's GDP and standard of living rose sharply after the economic reforms which saw the government allowing private enterprise and Western market access.
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I meant in terms of its governance.

From the link I provided, India is the 6th largest economy in nominal GDP and the 3rd highest in PPP. So the significance of China's population can't be overstated.

Regardless, I was just arguing a technicality. If you had said that China wouldn't have become the world's current 2nd largest economy if it had remained communist, I wouldn't have said anything. And maybe that's what you meant.
 
SmilinDesperado said:
Why do you care more about this word instead of what they actually do?

We don't have any country that is purely one thing. The United States isn't a purely capitalist society. And China isn't a communist one.
Communism is a theory, a theory that has a definition, and what that theory is, is not how these countries run their governments despite what they claim.
It's Maoism, Stalinism, Leninism, etc. The supposed collective society always turns into a dictatorship. If the word communism didn't exist, they'd have had a different word for it, which is why the word doesn't matter when it isn't even defining what they do.
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I don’t care about the word, I care about the consequences that occur every time a government performs under the guise of that word. Every state that’s ever called itself “communist” has turned into a complete shithole and that’s no coincidence.
 
Bojka said:
I meant in terms of its governance.

From the link I provided, India is the 6th largest economy in nominal GDP and the 3rd highest in PPP. So the significance of China's population can't be overstated.

Regardless, I was just arguing a technicality. If you had said that China wouldn't have become the world's current 2nd largest economy if it had remained communist, I wouldn't have said anything. And maybe that's what you meant.
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I disagree with those who say China is a Communist country or that the CCP is a Communist regime. Maybe this was true to a certain degree during Mao's heyday but it certainly hasn't been the case in over 30 years.

I follow the YouTube channel ADV podcast; the hosts mentioned that China despite outwardly claiming to be Communist has terrible social safety nets; worse than us. The below articles confirms this.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2013/03/07/does-china-need-social-safety-net-pub-51151

You would think a rich Communist country would have excellent social safety nets and heavily subsidized necessities.
 
Koro_11 said:
I don’t care about the word, I care about the consequences that occur every time a government performs under the guise of that word. Every state that’s ever called itself “communist” has turned into a complete shithole and that’s no coincidence.
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It's not just that these countries use it, people like you and others also use it against your enemies because Communism is another word for "bad". It becomes a tool to use against people and places you don't like.
Authoritarian states don't like admitting to be wrong, so they'll stick with the branding they gave themselves and continue to do whatever they want to do.
The problem with continuing to use that word is when we have idiots like Masvidal saying that "Communism" is what is happening in the United States, when it isn't even happening in the supposed "CCP". Comparing the conditions and actions of things happening in Cuba or the USSR 60 years ago to what's happening in the US today just shows you dont know what you're talking about.

If you think that the US government is being authoritarian , or overstepping, why don't people just say that, instead of this fearmongering communist bullshit?
 
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Ichibanner said:
Nobody tells MMA fighters to "shut up and dribble". I don't think you know what sports are.
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Well let's be honest MMA fighters get away with saying and doing a lot of shit people from other sports don't.
 
SanchoMF said:
My point is that what you probably consider true Communism can't and won't exist outside theory, which is something that gets proven each time any regime tries it.
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My point isn't to defend the idea of Communism.
Im not saying "Well, it didn't work because they didn't do it right". I'm just saying that what they're doing is not Communism, so to say that it is, is wrong---and then to further that by saying that we are doing the same "Communism" in the US is even more wrong.

Making inaccurate descriptions and then trying to compare them to our situations only obfuscates it all
 
SmilinDesperado said:
It's not just that these countries use it, people like you and others also use it against your enemies because Communism is another word for "bad". It becomes a tool to use against people and places you don't like.
Authoritarian states don't like admitting to be wrong, so they'll stick with the branding they gave themselves and continue to do whatever they want to do.
The problem with continuing to use that word is when we have idiots like Masvidal saying that "Communism" is what is happening in the United States, when it isn't even happening in the supposed "CCP". Comparing the conditions and actions of things happening in Cuba or the USSR 60 years ago to what's happening in the US today just shows you dont know what you're talking about.

If you think that the US government is being authoritarian , or overstepping, why don't people just say that, instead of this fearmongering communist bullshit?
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What about when the left calls some far right group in the States “NAZIS”?

Do you believe these people are actually performing like the National Socialist Party of German Workers?

Do you call those people out for inaccuracies and fearmongering?
 
Koro_11 said:
What about when the left calls some far right group in the States “NAZIS”?

Do you believe these people are actually performing like the National Socialist Party of German Workers?

Do you call those people out for inaccuracies and fearmongering?
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I'm not a spokesperson for the left, but I don't condone or like any of this extreme language, regardless of the side that's saying it, because it usually isn't accurate.
Whether it's the overuse of words like Nazi, racist, fascist, or communist, it's all bad and dumb, and makes it impossible to have intelligent debate or conversation.
 
SmilinDesperado said:
My point isn't to defend the idea of Communism.
Im not saying "Well, it didn't work because they didn't do it right". I'm just saying that what they're doing is not Communism, so to say that it is, is wrong---and then to further that by saying that we are doing the same "Communism" in the US is even more wrong.

Making inaccurate descriptions and then trying to compare them to our situations only obfuscates it all
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Right. What they are doing is the best case scenario that Communism is able to play out.
I suppose it's easy for people to confuse top-down dictation of allowed liberties, non-consulted public spending and totalitarianism with communism, simply because these are quite essential in any communist system.
But honestly, calling someone/something a commie in today's political conversations is the same as calling someone a fascist. It's used pretty much the same way.


Personally I like calling people commies.
 
Rational Poster said:
What do conservatives say when an athlete says something they don't like?

Ah yes!

Shut up and dribble.
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I mean Lebron did say some really dumb shit about something he knows nothing about. “People’s wasn’t educated enough.” LOL
 
I laugh when I see people on right wing media outlets derping Communism.
I am like yeah, corporations donate billions to both sides of the political aisle and you think communism is coming to America.
It just shows how uninformed and easily manipulated Americans are in the current partisan environment.
 
44nutman said:
I laugh when I see people on right wing media outlets derping Communism.
I am like yeah, corporations donate billions to both sides of the political aisle and you think communism is coming to America.
It just shows how uninformed and easily manipulated Americans are in the current partisan environment.
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wat

"trained marxists" of blm and a lot of hammer&sickles have been flying with antifa.

and that's without going into the subgroups like bamn and etc.

socialism isn't edgy so now the college brats rep communism. it's not a right-wing conspiracy to have eyeballs.
 
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