Masato"s kick

[NuTzOnSwOll]

guys i need more insight into this. In an old interview Andre Mannart talks about how 10 yrs ago masato came to train at meijiro. He goes on to say that he (masato) had a very strange orbit to his kick. One he had not seen before. Even kido's kick ...somethings different but i cant place it.
What is so different about the japper-style kick and what are its pros n cons.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

Masato's kick isn't Japanese style. A karate kick is Japanese. Masato's kick is so weird because he throws a Muay Thai style round kick but doesn't turn his hips over when he kicks. This is most obvious wen he misses a high kick because it looks like he's throwing a crescent kick. There's a thread on this already if you search the kickboxing forum.

 

[Steakeater**]

Its because he has a wider boxing/kickboxing stance.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

edit.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

Masato's kick isn't Japanese style. A karate kick is Japanese. Masato's kick is so weird because he throws a Muay Thai style round kick but doesn't turn his hips over when he kicks. This is most obvious wen he misses a high kick because it looks like he's throwing a crescent kick. There's a thread on this already if you search the kickboxing forum.

u mean he doesnt swing a 360 when he misses or that he barely turns his hip over ...beginner style.
and wont that point his foot at a real upward angle....risking an ankle break ?

oh yea wts the prev thread ?

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

u mean he doesnt swing a 360 when he misses or that he barely turns his hip over ...beginner style.
and wont that point his foot at a real upward angle....risking an ankle break ?

oh yea wts the prev thread ?

He doesn't turn his hip over that much. And yeah, it does increase your risk for injury. I don't remember the thread but I think it was some thing like "Masato's stance" or Masato's kicking style."

Edit: Here it is.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

He doesn't turn his hip over that much. And yeah, it does increase your risk for injury. I don't remember the thread but I think it was some thing like "Masato's stance" or Masato's kicking style."

Edit: Here it is.

yeah i found it too. Some good points there.
thats wt i thought, the potential for injury your ankle or kicking up into a an elbow seem high. In thailand i was taught that if a guy has a loose thai guard then kick up (no risk) but if he has a tight boxer guard then round it. Masato,kido etc though do it to guys with a tight boxer stance. Any insight into how ? Plus i notice they dont twist their supporting leg either. Its almost in the same position though i cant be sure if they take a lil step...its so fast.
Another thing is Sato's kick. Its almost like hes lightly tapping their leg. He does no hip or shoulder movement yet everybody claims he kicks so hard. I just dont see it. Do u think its k1 hype or just the fact that hes VERY accurate n persistent with it ?

 

[panamaican]

It's crazy - I was just writing about developing a similar style kick. I watched some of the videos from the other thread (never really watched K-1, so didn't know Masato) and it appears to be a combination of the MT and the karate style.

A brief summary of what I was noticing and writing about. The difference between the MT and karate style kick is about which foot is primarily used to generate power. In the thai-style, most power seems to be generated by the explosive launching of the kicking leg, with the support leg serving as the axis that you rotate your hips around (turning your hips over serves to ensure proper acceleration and consistent power throughout the technique). In the karate style, the power is generated by the support leg being used to drive the body and kick towards the opponent (the hips are essentially driven straight at the target, all acceleration is linear), and the kicking leg is only raised into kicking/chambered position in preparation for the subsequent support leg motion, it is not driven directly at the opponent until the support leg does so, hence no turning the hip over.

What I see with Masato (and what I going to post at a later date) is a combination of the two. You still push explosively with the kicking leg towards the target, a la the thai style. Only instead of turning the hips over to complete the rotation, you drive forward with the support leg, a la the karate style. The result is that you use both power generating techniques without the "shortcomings" of either. 1) The tendency to over- rotate with the thai style 2) the loss of power from the karate style. As a result, you still achieve the explosive power from the thai kicking leg with needing to turn the hips over for consistent power throughout the kick.

That's probably not the most well-written post of my life so anyone with experience in both styles, I'd like your feed back on explaining the mechanics.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

It's crazy - I was just writing about developing a similar style kick. I watched some of the videos from the other thread (never really watched K-1, so didn't know Masato) and it appears to be a combination of the MT and the karate style.

A brief summary of what I was noticing and writing about. The difference between the MT and karate style kick is about which foot is primarily used to generate power. In the thai-style, most power seems to be generated by the explosive launching of the kicking leg, with the support leg serving as the axis that you rotate your hips around (turning your hips over serves to ensure proper acceleration and consistent power throughout the technique). In the karate style, the power is generated by the support leg being used to drive the body and kick towards the opponent (the hips are essentially driven straight at the target, all acceleration is linear), and the kicking leg is only raised into kicking/chambered position in preparation for the subsequent support leg motion, it is not driven directly at the opponent until the support leg does so, hence no turning the hip over.

What I see with Masato (and what I going to post at a later date) is a combination of the two. You still push explosively with the kicking leg towards the target, a la the thai style. Only instead of turning the hips over to complete the rotation, you drive forward with the support leg, a la the karate style. The result is that you use both power generating techniques without the "shortcomings" of either. 1) The tendency to over- rotate with the thai style 2) the loss of power from the karate style. As a result, you still achieve the explosive power from the thai kicking leg with needing to turn the hips over for consistent power throughout the kick.

That's probably not the most well-written post of my life so anyone with experience in both styles, I'd like your feed back on explaining the mechanics.

true that. Funnily enough if u check Lucien Carbins technique (coach of dekker,spong,bregy) he says the same thing. Hips foward. Actually fedor said that he said that when he went to train with him for thr cro cop fight. if u watch lucien's kick (youtube) its almost like a beginners kick ! looks wrong but it must be effective cuz he once broke ronnie green's arm with kicks. PLus fedor has that exact same style now and hes very effective with it (when he uses it)
though it does not look anything like the jappa-kick. I only brought it up cuz it shares that same hip foward philosophy u talked about.

 

[ambertch]

u mean he doesnt swing a 360 when he misses or that he barely turns his hip over ...beginner style.

It's not beginner style. Maybe for MT, but I could go and say how all of MT's punches are beginner style for being arm punches.

Lots of guys fighting in K-1 kick like that. Also, Masato kicks standard Thai style too when he wants to (watch his old fights). His strength is in wrecking people with his hands though, and he biases his kicking style towards exposing/setting up opportunities to punch.

 

[yodsaenkla**]

Apparently Masato broke vince phillip's leg in ten places with his kicks so however it looks there must be some power there.

 

[Ron Powell Jr]

I'm at work right now so no youtube, but if you want to see how masato kicks in detail go to youtube and search for the video called "another side of masato" He shows some of his techniques in the second part.

Masato did alot of conventional boxing in his childhood years, he is a heavy combo puncher (very nice tight crisp rocket-like punches might i add), so he kicks in a way to keep his body square so he can deliver punches before and after his kicks without too much delay, he uses some leg action over hip action ala Karate. Still a solid damaging kick, but not devastating like a full-rotation thai kick.

This is the same reason guys like andy souwer and a few other dutch kickboxers have somewhat quicker whip-like kicks (they look like some power is held back), because they aren't pure Muay Thai style.

These guys i mentioned are tailor made for scoring points the K-1 point fighting style of rules which awards alot of points for simply landing strikes and staying busy, but not necessarily for the Muay Thai rules which are damage/balance based and heavily dependant on kicks and knees, where punches aren't scored unless they visibly move or rock the opponent.

Though i'd argue that Masato is more Muay Thai than Andy who has a slick kickboxer/shootboxer (ie a tag/ point racking) style. Masato has a well known ethnic Thai trainer that he's been with for a very long time, so if his Thai trainer approves of the way he kicks, then i do too lol.

 

[Hannibal]

There is nothing strange about it if you don't want to preach to the Holy Gospel of Muaytard Orthodoxy (an orthodoxy that is far from even existing). His first master was Shigeo, and he took something of his Kyokushin base with him for the rest of his career. WHOA WHAT A SHOCKER A KICKBOXER WHO MIXES SHIT UP. NO WAY, IT MUST BE SOMETHING FAR MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT, FUCK OCKHAM'S RAZOR AND KNOWN FACTS.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

There is nothing strange about it if you don't want to preach to the Holy Gospel of Muaytard Orthodoxy (an orthodoxy that is far from even existing). His first master was Shigeo, and he took something of his Kyokushin base with him for the rest of his career. WHOA WHAT A SHOCKER A KICKBOXER WHO MIXES SHIT UP. NO WAY, IT MUST BE SOMETHING FAR MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT, FUCK OCKHAM'S RAZOR AND KNOWN FACTS.

Woah there buddy ! Stick your head in a paper bag n calm the fk down. Its just an internet forum big guy
:icon_lol:

 

[nakmuay84]

I'm at work right now so no youtube, but if you want to see how masato kicks in detail go to youtube and search for the video called "another side of masato" He shows some of his techniques in the second part.

Masato did alot of conventional boxing in his childhood years, he is a heavy combo puncher (very nice tight crisp rocket-like punches might i add), so he kicks in a way to keep his body square so he can deliver punches before and after his kicks without too much delay, he uses some leg action over hip action ala Karate. Still a solid damaging kick, but not devastating like a full-rotation thai kick.

This is the same reason guys like andy souwer and a few other dutch kickboxers have somewhat quicker whip-like kicks (they look like some power is held back), because they aren't pure Muay Thai style.

These guys i mentioned are tailor made for scoring points the K-1 point fighting style of rules which awards alot of points for simply landing strikes and staying busy, but not necessarily for the Muay Thai rules which are damage/balance based and heavily dependant on kicks and knees, where punches aren't scored unless they visibly move or rock the opponent.

Though i'd argue that Masato is more Muay Thai than Andy who has a slick kickboxer/shootboxer (ie a tag/ point racking) style. Masato has a well known ethnic Thai trainer that he's been with for a very long time, so if his Thai trainer approves of the way he kicks, then i do too lol.

This.

the "pure" MT kick is all about hips/core rotation... the leg follow, relaxed, untill the kick lands...
however, there is no "best way" to kick... Masato's kicks, in K-1 rules, are better than "pure MT" ones.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

This.

the "pure" MT kick is all about hips/core rotation... the leg follow, relaxed, untill the kick lands...
however, there is no "best way" to kick... Masato's kicks, in K-1 rules, are better than "pure MT" ones.

yeah all the jappers kick the same way ...more or less. The Dutch kick one way n the thai have theirs.
i'm more interested in the japp way.

 

[panamaican]

yeah all the jappers kick the same way ...more or less. The Dutch kick one way n the thai have theirs.
i'm more interested in the japp way.

What's a "japper"?

 

[Hannibal]

What's a "japper"?

Hopefully something a mod will see and then ban this dense, dyslexic, borderline retarded, racist motherfucker.

 

[Kozbot]

Hopefully something a mod will see and then ban this dense, dyslexic, borderline retarded, racist motherfucker.

I don't think he meant as offensive

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

Hopefully something a mod will see and then ban this dense, dyslexic, borderline retarded, racist motherfucker.

Uh-Oh....Overly Uptight PC White boy in da House !!!
:icon_lol:

Jappa, Japper is not racist you clown. Its a short handed familiar term for japanese, just like Yankee is short for American.
We all know the KKK terms for orientals like (g)ook, slant (facial features), color observations etc.
Shit go downtown (Vancouver) n u get Jappa-Dogs by our very own japanese hot dog vendors (tofu weiner,seaweed n wasabi). Are u saying our multicultural Vancouver City is racist cuz we let these be boldly advertised ? :icon_lol:

Go find yourself another crusade there buddy.

:icon_lol: