Maia Prayer Vigil

[rmongler]

The problem with the 'well rounded' meme is you can't just wave your hands and become proficient in multiple phases of the fight game.

The greatest fighters to step onto the canvas all tend to have two qualities from a technical perspective: a 'golden hammer' they specialize in that they can pull off on pretty much anyone, and the ability to force the fight into situations where they can use that golden hammer.

Generally speaking, in MMA, the methods one might use to dictate what phases the fight might end up in tend to involve lots of wrestling. So to apply the transitive property too it, the greatest fighters to step inside a cage all tend to highly rate grappling in the neutral phases.

If Maia had spend more time in camp working on teeps and switch kicks, might the fight have been closer? Maybe. But the thing is, spending more time on one-twos is time not spent on anything else. Would that time have been worth more than spending more of that time on, say, cagework? Landing a few more strikes might have merited a round or two, but would still have been a losing effort. Further more, it would shift how Woodley himself would fight too. Whereas, if one can breach that critical level, to be able to take someone down, and hence, be able to keep taking them down, that would be a much surer path to victory for someone like Maia.

Like i said before, if you're good enough to beat someone using the best weapons, you're gona likely be beating them any other which way as well. Sometimes someone is just simply a more talented fighter.

I won't say i was a fly on the wall in either guy's camps, but going by the impressions i got, i would bet Woodley spent a lot more time on takedown defense than Maia did on the converse.

 

[Zankou]

Neither Woodley nor Maia was going to improve that aspect of their game much. Woodley is an elite wrestler who has had phenomenal TD defense for many years. Maia has long had excellent TDs. Neither was going to suddenly find a new gear in those basic areas that they have already trained like madmen for years. More important is to refine and develop specific parts of your game that your opponent is relatively weak at, come up with some tactical adjustments, not just keep running into a brick wall.

Put another way, it's not about developing a devastating power in a new area overnight; it's about spotting the points where your opponent is weak and you can gain an advantage relatively quickly. At least in my estimation, Woodley's biggest vulnerability is to a decision built on high volume low risk distance strikes that set up opportunistic takedowns. Woodley's passivity makes it hard for him to win decisions against an active striker unless he forces the ground game.

Shields was never a good striker, but he had a good strategy against Woodley.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

He should have worked on pulling guard more. But I don't know what to do against a guy like that that is just trying not to get taken down and threw a few punches here in there

If he couldn't get him down with other takedowns it was even less likely to work with pulling guard. Pulling guard works well in a sport where the person is required to go down to the ground with you, or at least continue grappling/clinching. Its not nearly as effective when the person is not required to follow you to the ground. And it becomes even worse when striking is allowed. There have been a number of MMA fighters who've tried very hard to use them (Werdum and Big Nog for instance), and with very limited success even against people with far weaker takedown defense than Woodley.

 

[rmongler]

Neither Woodley nor Maia was going to improve that aspect of their game much. Woodley is an elite wrestler who has had phenomenal TD defense for many years. Maia has long had excellent TDs. Neither was going to suddenly find a new gear in those basic areas that they have already trained like madmen for years. More important is to refine and develop specific parts of your game that your opponent is relatively weak at, come up with some tactical adjustments, not just keep running into a brick wall.

Put another way, it's not about developing a devastating power in a new area overnight; it's about spotting the points where your opponent is weak and you can gain an advantage relatively quickly. At least in my estimation, Woodley's biggest vulnerability is to a decision built on high volume low risk distance strikes that set up opportunistic takedowns. Woodley's passivity makes it hard for him to win decisions against an active striker unless he forces the ground game.

Shields was never a good striker, but he had a good strategy against Woodley.

The thing is Shields' striking wasn't really the biggest factor in him winning that fight, it was the wall-n-stall; his striking was serviceable enough to keep himself safe and get him to where he wanted to be, which is about just what you can ask for from your ancillary areas of focus.

Im not saying that diminishing returns are not a thing, and im not saying that gameplanning is not a thing either; im saying that people often have too much of a tendency to cast about for 'hacks', 'workarounds', and 'rAre techs' upon encountering the first sign of resistance, rather than maintaining focus on best practices, because they don't like to consider the thought that maybe they just aren't that good anyways.

 

[Zankou]

That's true ... however I think it is more a typical plague of younger and newer athletes who are looking to short cut their way with shitty rAr3 techniquez rather than getting good at something. With well developed athletes, you are looking not to add weird new shit and more to think about how you can find modes of engagement that are less favorable for your specific opponent.

 

[jack36767]

At least Maia finally got his shot, results sucked but the dude is a warrior regardless

 

[Ryo]

Where does Maia go from here? I would think retirement would be best. He's never going to get another shot and hes been fighting for a long time. He doesn't really have a path forward. Good thing is he hasn't had his brain scrambled too many times so, just retire, teach and grow your academy around the world.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Neither Woodley nor Maia was going to improve that aspect of their game much. Woodley is an elite wrestler who has had phenomenal TD defense for many years. Maia has long had excellent TDs. Neither was going to suddenly find a new gear in those basic areas that they have already trained like madmen for years. More important is to refine and develop specific parts of your game that your opponent is relatively weak at, come up with some tactical adjustments, not just keep running into a brick wall.

Put another way, it's not about developing a devastating power in a new area overnight; it's about spotting the points where your opponent is weak and you can gain an advantage relatively quickly. At least in my estimation, Woodley's biggest vulnerability is to a decision built on high volume low risk distance strikes that set up opportunistic takedowns. Woodley's passivity makes it hard for him to win decisions against an active striker unless he forces the ground game.

Shields was never a good striker, but he had a good strategy against Woodley.

Agreed. By R3 I was internally screaming for K1 Maia to make a return (since he clearly wasn't going to get the TD, at least not without setting it up with more striking), which is something I never thought I'd say.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Where does Maia go from here? I would think retirement would be best. He's never going to get another shot and hes been fighting for a long time. He doesn't really have a path forward. Good thing is he hasn't had his brain scrambled too many times so, just retire, teach and grow your academy around the world.

That's what I'd like to see him do. He's not the kind of guy they'd tap for a surprise title shot if someone dropped out of a future fight (certainly not if TW is still the champ), and that's his only viable route back to the belt at his age. I can think of at least 3-4 guys they'd give a shot to before giving Maia another crack. By all accounts his school network is growing and doing well, he's proved basically everything he could about the efficacy of almost pure grappling in MMA short of winning a belt, time to hang em up.

 

[Oblivian]

Honestly, I don't think he went for the takedown enough. In Rd 1, he really went after it. He was very close on the takedowns where the fence grabs occurred. It seemed to me he got discouraged easily.

 

[mattemate]

Honestly, I don't think he went for the takedown enough. In Rd 1, he really went after it. He was very close on the takedowns where the fence grabs occurred. It seemed to me he got discouraged easily.

Dude he had over 20 attempts.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Dude he had over 20 attempts.

And it was a relatively short notice fight for him. He was definitely worried about gassing. What I would have liked to see were fewer power doubles and more clinching, his closest attempts were all from bodylocks.

 

[Oblivian]

Dude he had over 20 attempts.

He had 6 attempts in the first round. Over the next 3 rounds, he only attempted 8. Look at a guy like Cain. Against JDS in their second fight, he attempted 33 takedowns and he's a HW. BJJ guys that need to get the fight to the ground need to be relentless on their takedowns.

Another fighter that failed with not going for takedowns recently was Cruz against Garbrandt. He tried 7 takedowns the entire fight. He wasn't getting them, so he got discouraged. He typically has a lot more attempts in a fight. He needed those takedowns to win the fight, but he just abandoned them because he wasn't used to getting stuffed.

I just got that vibe with Maia. He got discouraged, but you don't need a high takedown % to win a round. It's not really counting against you when you fail. I just don't see a reason for a guy like Maia to go 3 rounds with only attempting 2 or 3 takedowns. It's obviously what he needed to win, and he realized that in round 5 when he went for 7.

 

[560ti]

Where does Maia go from here? I would think retirement would be best. He's never going to get another shot and hes been fighting for a long time. He doesn't really have a path forward. Good thing is he hasn't had his brain scrambled too many times so, just retire, teach and grow your academy around the world.

His pay is fairly high ($100k to lose, almost $200K to win) so I could see him taking a couple fights against non top 5 fighters to save a little more and then retire.

He's also mentioned that he would like to break 20 UFC wins which he's close to doing (him and GSP both have 19 wins).

 

[rmongler]

That's true ... however I think it is more a typical plague of younger and newer athletes who are looking to short cut their way with shitty rAr3 techniquez rather than getting good at something. With well developed athletes, you are looking not to add weird new shit and more to think about how you can find modes of engagement that are less favorable for your specific opponent.

Well you know how i look at it;

Basically my point comes down too, i don't think k1 maia even gets the title shot in the first place.

 

[TheGZA]

Honestly, I don't think he went for the takedown enough...It seemed to me he got discouraged easily.

 

[jack36767]

He had 6 attempts in the first round. Over the next 3 rounds, he only attempted 8. Look at a guy like Cain. Against JDS in their second fight, he attempted 33 takedowns and he's a HW. BJJ guys that need to get the fight to the ground need to be relentless on their takedowns.

Another fighter that failed with not going for takedowns recently was Cruz against Garbrandt. He tried 7 takedowns the entire fight. He wasn't getting them, so he got discouraged. He typically has a lot more attempts in a fight. He needed those takedowns to win the fight, but he just abandoned them because he wasn't used to getting stuffed.

I just got that vibe with Maia. He got discouraged, but you don't need a high takedown % to win a round. It's not really counting against you when you fail. I just don't see a reason for a guy like Maia to go 3 rounds with only attempting 2 or 3 takedowns. It's obviously what he needed to win, and he realized that in round 5 when he went for 7.

You are ignoring something huge.. Woodley did a very good job of not just stuffing or running from takedowns.. but actively feeding Maia his hips and making him pay for trying on the way out.

Much like riding, it's very hard for bjj guys to truly conceptulize what running into hips like Woodleys especially when he's using them to punch you in the face with them feels like. So instead of just failing at the takedowns, and not really being discouraged like the third round of his Rory McDonald fight.. he after several of the takedowns was visibly affected by what he felt from Woodley. It was much more than getting "discouraged"

 

[Solidus Snake]

You are ignoring something huge.. Woodley did a very good job of not just stuffing or running from takedowns.. but actively feeding Maia his hips and making him pay for trying on the way out.

Much like riding, it's very hard for bjj guys to truly conceptulize what running into hips like Woodleys especially when he's using them to punch you in the face with them feels like. So instead of just failing at the takedowns, and not really being discouraged like the third round of his Rory McDonald fight.. he after several of the takedowns was visibly affected by what he felt from Woodley. It was much more than getting "discouraged"

When Babalu came doing a seminar in my school like three years ago he did a wonderful job explaining how the hips should be truly used to stop a takedown in a more different and brutal way than just the usual basic sprawl.. I guess it's similar to what you are saying here as it felt like being punched in the face by hips and the concept was indeed quite a novelty for me and many others, even if it's a bit hard to believe to me that someone the level of Maia was alien to this concept to the point of him being mentally broke down so hard by it..

 

[Uchi Mata]

You are ignoring something huge.. Woodley did a very good job of not just stuffing or running from takedowns.. but actively feeding Maia his hips and making him pay for trying on the way out.

Much like riding, it's very hard for bjj guys to truly conceptulize what running into hips like Woodleys especially when he's using them to punch you in the face with them feels like. So instead of just failing at the takedowns, and not really being discouraged like the third round of his Rory McDonald fight.. he after several of the takedowns was visibly affected by what he felt from Woodley. It was much more than getting "discouraged"

I doubt Woodley's hips hitting him bothered a veteran of like 40 MMA fights all that much, but the way he was stuffing the TDs without getting out of position to strike made every attempt very dangerous for Maia. Almost every time he shot TW was ready with the right underhook and it meant that he didn't have to turn his back to limp leg or fully sprawl, which in turn meant that on the exit Maia was a sitting duck for half a second. Well, that's way too long against someone with power like Woodley's, and I think that fear of getting cracked off the failed TD was a big part (along with energy management) or what kept Maia away. Look how cagey he was in terms of trying to back Tyron up to the fence and clinch with him, which is usually his best method of getting TDs (not that power double he repeatedly went to here); that was almost certainly because we was worried that getting into the pocket was going to get him rocked, and he was probably right.

This fight sucked for two reasons: the first is that Maia, upon figuring out he couldn't get Woodley down without significant risk, basically chose not to take that risk and kept waiting for Woodley to over commit to where he wouldn't be able to keep Maia off his hips on a reactive shot. The second reason is that Woodley, knowing the only way he was going to get taken down was by over committing and trying to finish Maia but that he could easily box him up with pot shots and win a decision chose to let Maia back him up the fence, threw a right as his feet edged the cage to scare Maia off, and then whether he landed or not he refused to follow Maia past the center of the octagon so you just ended up with the same series repeating itself over and over: Maia throws weak jabs while edging forward, TW edges back, when Tyron's back foot gets close the cage he fires a few shots and explodes forward which causes Maia to back straight up a few feet (God forbid anyone angle off in this fight), Woodley stops as Maia backs off, and Maia comes forward with probing jabs. Repeat for the middle 3 of the 5 rounds.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Demian threw enough tds to realize he wasnt going to get tyron down, he got really deep in some of them, Twood is just some nightmare to get down with a doble or single, hes stocky, with tree trunks legs and an ass the size of the earth, hes got some mad power on those hips, and as I said, he was playng smart, no risk, no following up wrestling once sprawled on maias head....

I though demian was going to be able to get a cage td, by the end of the second, I lost my faith on that.

I sincerly think there was no way maia was going to take Twood down, so he had to win the strking battle, which I had zero faith in it also.

I