Economy Maher: Should People Who Didn't Attend College Subsidize Those Who Did?

[ferrisjso]

That’s penalizing the successful and it’s more opportunistic for the poor and middle class. You may see that as beneficial, but it’s not fair. The only fair solution is that everyone pays the same percentage across the board.

Except it isn't fair because at a higher income level the same percentage impacts a person differently. The rich have spent decades stealing with the fake progressive tax that's really regressive it's time to stop stealing not to promote more.

 

[freakroor]

this is a stupid idea. It seems like a good way for the schools and administrators who run this scam to keep their money.

If it is indeed the case that people have paid too much for their education and are now in need of some sort of gov't intervention, then why not just make the colleges themselves refund some of the ridiculous sums of tuition money they have raked in, instead of having the public pay for everything.

or let the market handle it.... I'm sure people will eventually stop enrolling in programs that leave them in massive debt. In the meantime, let it be a lesson.

 

[BassAckwards]

this is a stupid idea. It seems like a good way for the schools and administrators who run this scam to keep their money.

If it is indeed the case that people have paid too much for their education and are now in need of some sort of gov't intervention, then why not just make the colleges themselves refund some of the ridiculous sums of tuition money they have raked in, instead of having the public pay for everything.

or let the market handle it.... I'm sure people will eventually stop enrolling in programs that leave them in massive debt. In the meantime, let it be a lesson.

thats not fair. i have a 100k in student loans from a overpriced college for a useless degree in transgender interpretive dance with a minor in quantum ethiopian basket weaving. the labor market should pay me 100k/year for me to sip on soy or else the US tax payers should pay for my mistakes.

 

[PHATV]

It's not a subsidy they aren't literally paying for them. That's a lie. Anyone saying "my taxes are paying for X" is full of crap(at least in the federal government).

And this sounds like the whole "why should you be treated good if I wasn't?" fallacy. It's basically dragging everyone down. What about the Boomers who had either free college through the GI Bill or nearly free college at a public university? Why should we pay more when they didn't, shouldn't they pay for the right they had but told us we couldn't? This jealous logic goes both ways.

I know a dozen people who worked two jobs and went to school and paid as they went, some got some help from parents, some not. They were serious about it and took serious classes and had serious majors. Some stayed with their folks during this and some went away to an in-state school. Not one left the state for school absent a scholarship. They're all very comfortable now, less than 30 years later. I know a dozen more who didn't go to college, learned a trade and now make six figures along with having a nice pension. Because they straight couldn't afford college, had to help with $ and their single mom, or just didn't want to go to college. They are also very comfortable. This borrowing a couple hundred thousand dollars for the "experience" of taking dipshit classes and traveling the world would most assuredly make these folks I speak of pay for those loans, simply by virtue of them all being producers in society---versus all the clown-car commies like the author who bring nothing to the table but debt and leftist spew which has little value on the open market.

 

[ferrisjso]

I know a dozen people who worked two jobs and went to school and paid as they went, some got some help from parents, some not. They were serious about it and took serious classes and had serious majors. Some stayed with their folks during this and some went away to an in-state school. Not one left the state for school absent a scholarship. They're all very comfortable now, less than 30 years later. I know a dozen more who didn't go to college, learned a trade and now make six figures along with having a nice pension. Because they straight couldn't afford college, had to help with $ and their single mom, or just didn't want to go to college. They are also very comfortable. This borrowing a couple hundred thousand dollars for the "experience" of taking dipshit classes and traveling the world would most assuredly make these folks I speak of pay for those loans, simply by virtue of them all being producers in society---versus all the clown-car commies like the author who bring nothing to the table but debt and leftist spew which has little value on the open market.

And that's the issue, college is about the experience and the education it is not about getting a job, it is not an investment. It has only had to become one as a consequence of the debt. It was never supposed to be that, not when it was just for preppy aristocrats and not now. It's why I have such a problem with Andrew Yang's reasoning for opposing free college he sees it just as one of many means to job training. That isn't what it's supposed to be about.

Fuck the open market. If you had to suffer through this system your goal should be making sure others don't have to do it, not making sure others have to suffer as much as you did.

 

[ferrisjso]

this is a stupid idea. It seems like a good way for the schools and administrators who run this scam to keep their money.

If it is indeed the case that people have paid too much for their education and are now in need of some sort of gov't intervention, then why not just make the colleges themselves refund some of the ridiculous sums of tuition money they have raked in, instead of having the public pay for everything.

or let the market handle it.... I'm sure people will eventually stop enrolling in programs that leave them in massive debt. In the meantime, let it be a lesson.

Because MMT means no one pays for anything.

 

[PHATV]

this is a stupid idea. It seems like a good way for the schools and administrators who run this scam to keep their money.

If it is indeed the case that people have paid too much for their education and are now in need of some sort of gov't intervention, then why not just make the colleges themselves refund some of the ridiculous sums of tuition money they have raked in, instead of having the public pay for everything.

or let the market handle it.... I'm sure people will eventually stop enrolling in programs that leave them in massive debt. In the meantime, let it be a lesson.

Great point. A lot of folks don't realize that during the past 30 years the salaries of professors and admin has skyrocketed, yet they kept their sweet 90% walkout pensions (that were installed because teachers didn't make that much) with cost of living increases and free medical coverage. Forever. Retire at $200,000, start collecting $180,000 cash pension at 57 years of age. Not too bad. Live to be 85 and you've make more cash pension (probably $280,000 cash per year by then) than you made while you actually worked. Maybe twice as much money (CASH) in retirement as you were paid for actually working. Sweet gig.

Ohio has started to reel it in for teachers and professors, but I think starting now still gets you 70% walkout, something still outrageous like that. Untenable. Educated folks should realize that, no? You bet your ass they know they are the queens and kings of graft, some of them dumb as stumps. Good (not stupid) public-sector pensions for retired police and fire seems reasonable to me, but we need to rectify the 80s here (under Dick Celeste with dem lawmakers) where they made every public employee part of it. I know of guys that I like who are my age (50) and nearing retirement from city jobs where they mowed the municipal golf course and such. Salt truck drivers. I'm happy for them, but that is not sustainable and it's time to get a handle on it. If more private-sector employees knew how much MORE they would have made taking an easier, public-sector job, we would be able to vote in some folks who would rectify it. As of now, the majority of people don't even realize how badly they're being fleeced.

 

[PHATV]

And that's the issue, college is about the experience and the education it is not about getting a job, it is not an investment. It has only had to become one as a consequence of the debt. It was never supposed to be that, not when it was just for preppy aristocrats and not now. It's why I have such a problem with Andrew Yang's reasoning for opposing free college he sees it just as one of many means to job training. That isn't what it's supposed to be about.

Fuck the open market. If you had to suffer through this system your goal should be making sure others don't have to do it, not making sure others have to suffer as much as you did.

I'm not interested in paying for others' "experiences". And it's good to suffer through it. It builds character and work ethic and it is extremely rewarding, both emotionally and financially for those who take that path.

How old are you and what do you do for a living, out of curiosity? I'm 50 and work in financial sector. Some college, do not have a 4-year degree. Couldn't afford it (my young man excuse) and frankly wanted the "party" experience with friends and all the ladies at the time as opposed to going to school every night after work (though that paid some lady dividends early on, too). I've worked my ass off starting in a $8/hour entry-level position for HS grads 25 years ago, started taking tests and certifications and exams and was given opportunity to compete with those who had degrees but couldn't pass the same series/blocks of testing within about 4 or 5 years. Anyway, I got there. No privilege. No money. No family connections. No nothing. Educated myself. In fairness, I would have gone farther faster if I had a solid degree, but we all make our own decisions and live with them. I wouldn't change my path, to be honest. Well, maybe a couple things along the way...
haha

Now, the same "starting" spot I came from requires a degree of some kind. Whatever degree (social work, liberal arts, sign language, journalism, education). But the entry-level requires a degree. If you want to get a "real" job at the company I work for, best have a degree in science, engineering, mathematics, physics, finance, accounting, etc. (you get my drift----no liberal arts or education degrees accepted) and you best bring a 3.6 GPA with you. It is VERY competitive and there are candidates world wide. There are more children in honors programs in India than we have children in school. I swear that was a stat I saw recently. And their honors programs are the real deal. People here in the US better get serious, because I promise you the Indians, Chinese, Bahamian, European, Canadian and African (among others) men and women I speak with damn sure are. They are incredibly smart and well-educated. The current generation of home-grown talent is slim. But it's still there. I meet amazing candidates from all over the US as well, but less than we need to do these specialized roles.

Everyone should work hard to make themselves as valuable as possible, then work hard and the rest will come to you. This is the greatest system anywhere on the planet, and everyone knows it. And it's still the only place you can come from abject poverty to great wealth via education and hard work. Look at Asians and their median income and education. Indians. They get it. They know this is the greatest country the world has ever known.

I hope you figure that out, too.

 

[ferrisjso]

I'm not interested in paying for others' "experiences". And it's good to suffer through it. It builds character and work ethic and it is extremely rewarding, both emotionally and financially for those who take that path.

How old are you and what do you do for a living, out of curiosity? I'm 50 and work in financial sector. Some college, do not have a 4-year degree. Couldn't afford it and frankly wanted the "party" experience with friends and all the ladies at the time as opposed to going to school every night after work (though that paid some lady dividends early on, too). I've worked my ass off starting in a $8/hour entry-level position for HS grads 25 years ago, started taking tests and certifications and exams and was given opportunity to compete with those who had degrees but couldn't pass the same series/blocks of testing within about 4 or 5 years. Anyway, I got there. No privilege. No money. No family connections. No nothing. Educated myself. In fairness, I would have gone farther faster if I had a solid degree, but we all make our own decisions and live with them. I wouldn't change my path, to be honest. Well, maybe a couple things along the way...
haha

Now, the same "starting" spot I came from requires a degree of some kind. Whatever degree (social work, liberal arts, sign language, journalism, education). But the entry-level requires a degree. If you want to get a "real" job at the company I work for, best have a degree in science, engineering, mathematics, physics, finance, accounting, etc. (you get my drift----no liberal arts or education degrees accepted) and you best bring a 3.6 GPA with you. It is VERY competitive and there are candidates world wide. There are more children in honors programs in India than we have children in school. I swear that was a stat I saw recently. And their honors programs are the real deal. People here in the US better get serious, because I promise you the Indians, Chinese, Bahamian, European, Canadian and African (among others) men and women I speak with damn sure are. They are incredibly smart and well-educated. The current generation of home-grown talent is slim. But it's still there. I meet amazing candidates from all over the US as well, but less than we need to do these specialized roles.

Everyone should work hard to make themselves as valuable as possible, then work hard and the rest will come to you. This is the greatest system anywhere on the planet, and everyone knows it. And it's still the only place you can come from abject poverty to great wealth via education and hard work. Look at Asians and their median income and education. Indians. They get it. They know this is the greatest country the world has ever known.

I hope you figure that out, too.

Oh the suffering builds character nonsense. I see the concept of work buildings character when rich people opt to not work and live off of diverse investments as propaganda. And again you're not paying for it, read MMT. If people were willing to admit the debt was a fake issue perhaps liberals would be open to not taxing anyone for anything.

This whole story archetype is just one that angers me. You're supposed to angry and resentful that had to happen, not proud of it. That's stockholm syndrone. The free market has destroyed this country so bad and people using their admittedly shitty experiences as proof that this is good just bothers me. Suffering is not good. Also working for someone else's financial gain is inherently degrading unless it's your voluntary choice which if you have to work for a living it never is.

I am pursuing a law degree and a health corp compliance thingy to educate myself for my war on the health insurance industry.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

The only fair solution is that everyone pays the same percentage across the board.

LOL, thats not fair at all considering the rich benefit more fom the taxes paid. Why should poor people pay the same rate into a police force when they dont have any property or possessions for the police force to protect?

Its easy to be rich and hoard zhit in your mansion when you have a police force that you and everyone else subsidizes to protect your zhit. Take that tax-funded police force away and all of a sudden its not so easy to be rich anymore...

 

[VivaRevolution]

I totally agree with him here. College is an investment, if that investment doesn't pay off, then fuck you. That isn't on anybody else, especially poor people.

HBO 'Real Time' host Bill Maher talks about the popular issue with presidential candidates, free college. Maher said those who did not go to college and poor people would be subsidizing those who went to college and statistically make more than those who did not. Maher said he would be "pissed" and likened the situation to being a renter while financing the people who own the home.

"Let me test your liberalism," Maher said to the 'Real Time' panel. "If you have a bachelor degree you on average earn 65% more than someone who doesn't have one. If you have a master's degree, 100% more over the course of your lifetime. So nothing is free like a free lunch. Nope. Neither is college. Somebody will be paying for this free college and it will be taxpayers."

"So are we really saying that someone who didn't go to college should be subsidizing the people who went and got the benefit of going to college and made more money? Is that really a liberal thing?" Maher asked.



video here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...end_college_be_subsidizing_those_who_did.html

Lol, like any of us are paying the 20 trillion dollar deficit back.

We are a nation with a credit card we have no plans of ever paying back, and you are arguing we should be careful how we use it?

Why?

 

[PHATV]

I am pursuing a law degree and a health corp compliance thingy to educate myself for my war on the health insurance industry.

Good luck with that. When you get in the game, you'll be guarding their "LeBron" lawyer, so bring your "A" game.

 

[IGIT]

My real issue comes from what the gov't does with said money they get in the tax... they seem awful adept at pissing it away on bridges to nowhere and shit.

hi Gregolian,

its here that i place my faith in Mrs. Warren and her zeal for wonky detail oriented legislation.

this won't be a fund for some small government/fiscally conservative fraud (RIP Ted Stevens) to plunder. it'll go right to fund Mrs. Warren's education proposal, i'd reckon.

- IGIT

 

[MikeMcMann]

While I might agree that the University admittance, tuition and debt situations needs some reform in the US...

I struggle with the idea that people who choose not to go to University should pay for those who do. Especially the young people who may choose a route outside formal education and are shown to have lower life long earnings.

Happy to hear some logic behind why they should pay for others to earn more than them?

 

[MilesAbove]

Should people who go to university (and therefor make more, on average, than those who do not) subsidize those who did not go to university (with their taxes)??

Both answers are "yes" because society.

 

[Sensei Student]

We already have an abundance of useless college grads who aren't using their degrees for anything. Free tuition means everyone is going to have a useless degree. Finding job will be even harder now. A bachelor will be same as a high school diploma.

 

[The Hash Slinging Slasher]

Never thought I’d agree with anything bill maher said....

 

[superpunch]

Oh the suffering builds character nonsense. I see the concept of work buildings character when rich people opt to not work and live off of diverse investments as propaganda. And again you're not paying for it, read MMT. If people were willing to admit the debt was a fake issue perhaps liberals would be open to not taxing anyone for anything.

This whole story archetype is just one that angers me. You're supposed to angry and resentful that had to happen, not proud of it. That's stockholm syndrone. The free market has destroyed this country so bad and people using their admittedly shitty experiences as proof that this is good just bothers me. Suffering is not good. Also working for someone else's financial gain is inherently degrading unless it's your voluntary choice which if you have to work for a living it never is.

I am pursuing a law degree and a health corp compliance thingy to educate myself for my war on the health insurance industry.

I have a degree but I was doing restaurant work recently and most fellow workers didn't have degrees. Forcing them to pay for someone else's education debt .. holy shit, just no. Take money from the people with degrees and debt, and give it to them instead. Oh, that doesn't sound so appealing anymore, having your stuff taken and given to other people, does it? It just sounds like reasonable policy when you're taking other peoples shit, doesn't it?

 

[superpunch]

While I might agree that the University admittance, tuition and debt situations needs some reform in the US...

I struggle with the idea that people who choose not to go to University should pay for those who do. Especially the young people who may choose a route outside formal education and are shown to have lower life long earnings.

Happy to hear some logic behind why they should pay for others to earn more than them?

There are all kinds of ways to avoid debt. Serve your country. Go to college overseas; a degree is like $1000 in India. Cost of living + degree over 4 years totals ~$10K in China. These freeloaders just want the ultimate experience, 4 years of partying and they want to take from the poor and disenfranchised to do it.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Isn't the point of this to make college accessible to poor people? The rich pay more in taxes than the poor. So the poor should benefit relatively more.