Social Macron calls snap election after losing to far right in EU vote

[Koya]

At first immigration (wich is real reason turning whole europe rightwing to begin with), to make them work as barrier before mass movements reach mediterranean sea, because at that point lot of international laws push to allow them in Europe
Also would be nice obtain 100% collaboration from them to take back all their citiziens we don't want anymore (because committed crime or other reason that make the undesirable) wich would do wonders in some cities

Btw i don't see that "pressure" as to say bully them, there should be fair reward in terms of offer do mutual benefit business together and help develop their economies (wich ironically is what Meloni say, but i don't believe politicians doing what they say)
Of course at first there will be a problem of trust (due our dirty past with them, but tbh they often are'nt trust worthy either, see Kais Saied) but in long run money would make it work if is done with honest will of solidify this kind of collaboration rather than single euro nations trying scam them

Essentially approach them as a giant united economical entity willing to seek opportunities that benefit both parts, but at same time credible force if they prefer play sneaky asshole

Btw all that is useless as long Libya is bullshit
Our best interest should have been pick most acceptable leader and support him till he conquer/control whole nation to return have a credible interlocutor in the area
You can make deals with Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt, but as long Libya is a mess your filter have a giant hole


Also have strong hand but positive relationship with them would be best way to prevent Russia/China influence in Africa to fuck up our plans with these nations on mediterranean sea



Of course i don't believe in any of that
EU lack unity, will or balls to do anything legit in this kind of situations, so it is what it is

At best if enough big euro players turn right there may be the will to create a common european system of deportation rather than let individual countries having to deal alone all the related bureaucratic nonsense
And more important have whole europe together pay the cost of it

But i don't know how much believe that either

I can't say I agree with everything but the points you develop are interesting and deserve further thoughts so thanks for the answer.

Russia and China are already present in north Africa, with Russian presence being more subtle and political but China being especially huge in terms of economics and investments. Like really huge.

Turkey also got a few chips staked there and they make a lot of good business in that area of the world.

So yeah a mutual benefit relationship would really be the best.

What is your stance on bi-nationals? Do you want them to give up a nationality? Or can they stay as they are ? It's something that Le Pen wanted in France but then backtracked for example.

What about Jus Soli or "right of the soil" (acquire a citizenship because you're born there) ? Do you want that abolished ?

When I ask "you" it's not that personal don't take it wrongly, I'd like to know what is the sentiment amongst Italian supporters of Meloni and what is promised to them by their government (I don't know well about it yet but I'm looking and reading)

 

[Octavian]

You're right. Just volunteer other people's sons

You're right. Just volunteer other people's sons.

lol at your wildly simplistic world view… does it hurt your feelings when you read posts you don’t agree with?

 

[Deleted member 592570]

lol at your wildly simplistic world view… does it hurt your feelings when you read posts you don’t agree with?

It hurts my feelings when I read how many young Ukranian men have died for no reason.

 

[Bacco]

I can't say I agree with everything but the points you develop are interesting and deserve further thoughts so thanks for the answer.

Russia and China are already present in north Africa, with Russian presence being more subtle and political but China being especially huge in terms of economics and investments. Like really huge.

Turkey also got a few chips staked there and they make a lot of good business in that area of the world.

So yeah a mutual benefit relationship would really be the best.

What is your stance on bi-nationals? Do you want them to give up a nationality? Or can they stay as they are ? It's something that Le Pen wanted in France but then backtracked for example.

What about Jus Soli or "right of the soil" (acquire a citizenship because you're born there) ? Do you want that abolished ?

When I ask "you" it's not that personal don't take it wrongly, I'd like to know what is the sentiment amongst Italian supporters of Meloni and what is promised to them by their government (I don't know well about it yet but I'm looking and reading)

Yeah China in Africa is everywhere and Russia even have soldiers in Libya

You can take as granted also that if you pick one of the two Libyan wannabe presidents to help him get on the throne, Russia will try side with/help the other... but for what's worth they're so busy with Ukraine that the help they can give him would be quite crippled

Turkey did business and actually cover a role that used to be done more by Italy in Tunisia/Libya but tbh it's not big problem
I don't trust turks , but are'nt our enemy either (at least as long they don't believe it to be convenient) and if NA nations can do business with multiple richer countries the better for them, only field i would see a problem is on energetic side if there's competition to buy resources from them... but that's a scenario where indeed EU should learn to work as a united entity and show up at auction day as an economic giant Turkey can't compete with
Problem with that is that selfishness of richest euro nations would probably prevent it from happen

Have no problem with bi-nationals and have no idea about the reasoning/issue that make Le Pen want them to give up a nationality (if is economy related would prefer economy rules made to prevent abuse on the system), if anything would prefer them to keep their birth nationality too in case as result of serious situation you want strip them of the later nationality you conceded them

We don't have ius solis in Italy and i'm against it if is supposed to be just universal concession
Son of people who followed legal path to become italian, born here yeah he should be italian by default
Son of people who illegally came here, should not win citizienship due birth, as his birth here is result of an illegal situation... but since he did'nt committed the illegal action himself, would give him opportunity to earn citizienship.
No crimes and xxx amount of years of paid taxes (10? 15?) would offer decent filter to split those who will become members of society from those that should not even be here, let alone given citizienship/right to vote

Another aspect i don't like of ius solis is that left would be in position of creating new left-voters by simply importing people from outside and be like "see? i gifted you citizienship", wich would create an obvious conflict of interest since their duty should be do italian's best interest and not something else as long grants them victory

Concept wise i much prefer the idea foreigner knowing to have earned it himself rather than be in debt of left throwing citizienship like free candies

Make them work and behave (in other words integrate) to reach it would generate better mindset... i know LOT of honest/hard working foreigners, and large majority of them would not share left mindset on immigration, they're the first to be mad at those who crime/parasite and say we should deport them lol

I'm not best example for what you look for as i'm not a Meloni supporter... i do believe she's the least worst current italian politician, but i did'nt voted her (or anybody else)
I don't even have a political party of appartenence for what's worth, i may be right wing on some things and left wing on others (even if i'm sure to look far right here in WR due the themes we usually touch here, like immigration or security)

 

[Octavian]

It hurts my feelings when I read how many young Ukranian men have died for no reason.

Ahhh... so you're one of the Russian apologists who frequents this board. Shocker based on your responses. Note how you're mourning Ukrainian men but no mention of the women that have been abducted, raped and killed in Russia... or the children for that matter. Doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Ahhh... so you're one of the Russian apologists who frequents this board. Shocker based on your responses. Note how you're mourning Ukrainian men but no mention of the women that have been abducted, raped and killed in Russia... or the children for that matter. Doesn't fit your narrative.

Ur SaD about DeD uKrAnIaNs U mUsT bE rUsSiAn

 

[Octavian]

Ur SaD about DeD uKrAnIaNs U mUsT bE rUsSiAn

You feign concern for Ukranian men and want them to NOT defend their country - how utterly pathetic. Think about that for a moment. You want a country to hand itself over to another and are too stupid to realize Ukraine would be fighting with or without help from the West because they know what Russian takeover means for its people. What do you not understand about that? You're not fooling anyone here with your garbage takes and stupid replies.

Also, Mark Coleman was never the goat and watching him get kicked in the face by Pete Williams remains one of the all time painful KO's.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

You feign concern for Ukranian men and want them to NOT defend their country - how utterly pathetic. Think about that for a moment. You want a country to hand itself over to another and are too stupid to realize Ukraine would be fighting with or without help from the West because they know what Russian takeover means for its people. What do you not understand about that? You're not fooling anyone here with your garbage takes and stupid replies.

Also, Mark Coleman was never the goat and watching him get kicked in the face by Pete Williams remains one of the all time painful KO's.

This is a child's understanding of what is happening.

Ukraine has only been a country since 1991. Before that, it was part of the USSR. The disputed parts of Eastern Ukraine are largely ethnically Russian.

In 2014, the CIA backed a coup in Ukraine, overthrowing the democratically elected pro-Russian government to install a pro-NATO government.

Since then, the Eastern part of Ukraine has seen bloody civil war and ethnic cleansing.

To act like this is just some evil empire invading it's neighbour is literally what I'd expect from a high school kid.

Grow up and read a book.

 

[Billy no mates]

This is a child's understanding of what is happening.

Ukraine has only been a country since 1991. Before that, it was part of the USSR. The disputed parts of Eastern Ukraine are largely ethnically Russian.

In 2014, the CIA backed a coup in Ukraine, overthrowing the democratically elected pro-Russian government to install a pro-NATO government.

Since then, the Eastern part of Ukraine has seen bloody civil war and ethnic cleansing.

To act like this is just some evil empire invading it's neighbour is literally what I'd expect from a high school kid.

Grow up and read a book.

The component parts of the USSR existed before the Union many of them before the Russian Empire or in Ukraines case even before Russia .

The Incumbent President was ousted for refusing to enact pro EU measures the Ukrainian parliament had overwhelming passed .

The conflict in Eastern Ukraine was actively precipitated by Girkin and other Moscow backed terrorists .

Maybe try your own advice .

 

[Deleted member 592570]

The component parts of the USSR existed before the Union many of them before the Russian Empire or in Ukraines case even before Russia .

That's the same logic for why Palestine is a country which I'm told isn't valid.

 

[Kingz]

France’s far-right National Rally wins first round of snap election

The first round of a snap parliamentary election in France pointed to a surge in votes for the anti-immigrant National Rally party.

www.cnbc.com

Looking like a strong first round result for the good guys. Not trending towards an absolute majority when it’s all said and done…and Bardella won’t want PM without a full majority.. but no doubt a powerful bloc to have sway but also not take the blame for the further degradation of France as the populace slowly pussy foots to the changes they all know will need to be made.

It’s probably best that they remain outsiders for another cycle as their trend of support will see them as pretty unbeatable in a couple of years. They’ll no doubt have the next President.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Far right wins first round in France election, final result uncertain, exit polls show​

By Juliette Jabkhiro and Layli Foroudi

• Summary

• France holds first round of parliamentary election
• Anti-immigrant, eurosceptic RN emerges ahead
• Leftist bloc in second, Macron's centrists in third
• Second round will take place on July 7

PARIS, June 30 (Reuters) - Marine Le Pen's far-right National Rally (RN) party won the first round of France's parliamentary election on Sunday, exit polls showed, but the final result will depend on days of horsetrading before next week's run-off.
The RN was seen winning around 34% of the vote, exit polls from Ipsos, Ifop, OpinionWay and Elabe showed.

That was ahead of leftist and centrist rivals, including President Emmanuel Macron's Together alliance, whose bloc was seen winning 20.5%-23%. The New Popular Front (NFP), a hastily assembled left-wing coalition, was projected to win around 29% of the vote, the exit polls showed.

The exit polls were in line with opinion polls ahead of the election, but provided little clarity on whether the anti-immigrant, eurosceptic RN will be able to form a government to "cohabit" with the pro-EU Macron after next Sunday's run-off.

The RN's chances of winning power next week will depend on the political dealmaking made by its rivals over the coming days. In the past, centre-right and centre-left parties have teamed up to keep the RN from power, but that dynamic, known as the "republican front," is less certain than ever.

If no candidate reaches 50% in the first round, the top two contenders automatically qualify for the second round, as well as all those with 12.5% of registered voters. In the run-off, whoever wins the most votes take the constituency.
High turnout on Sunday suggests France is heading for a record number of three-way run-offs. These generally benefit the RN much more than two-way contests, experts say.

The horsetrading began almost immediately on Sunday night.
In a written statement to the press, Macron called on voters to rally behind candidates who are "clearly republican and democratic", which, based on his recent declarations, would exclude candidates from the RN and from the hard-left France Unbowed (LFI) party
LFI leader Jean-Luc Melenchon said the second-placed NFP alliance will withdraw all its candidates who came third in the first round.

"Our guideline is simple and clear: not a single more vote for the National Rally," he said.

Jordan Bardella, the 28-year-old RN party president, said he was ready to be prime minister - if his party wins an absolute majority. He has ruled out trying to form a minority government and neither Macron nor the NFP will form an alliance with him.

"I will be a "cohabitation" Prime Minister, respectful of the constitution and of the office of President of the Republic, but uncompromising about the policies we will implement," he said.

COMPLEX CALCULUS​

The RN was seen winning the most seats in the National Assembly, but only one of the pollsters - Elabe - had the party winning an absolute majority of 289 seats in the run-off.

Experts say that seat projections after first-round votes can be highly inaccurate, and especially so in this election.

Voter participation was high compared with previous parliamentary elections, illustrating the political fervour Macron aroused with his stunning decision to call a parliamentary vote after the RN trounced his party in European Parliament elections earlier this month.

His decision plunged France into political uncertainty, sent shockwaves around Europe and prompted a sell-off of French assets on financial markets.

A longtime pariah, the RN is now closer to power than it has ever been. Le Pen has sought to clean up the image of a party known for racism and antisemitism, a tactic that has worked amid voter anger at Macron, the high cost of living and growing concerns over immigration.

At 1500 GMT, turnout was nearly 60%, compared with 39.42% two years ago - the highest comparable turnout figures since the 1986 legislative vote, Ipsos France's research director Mathieu Gallard said.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...at-could-put-far-right-government-2024-06-30/

 

[Andy Capp]

Yup, as expected, looks like Macron screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[Billy no mates]

Yup, as expected, looks like Macron screwed the pooch on this one.

It's looking like a huge miscalculation on his part , historically 2nd round voting has often been different from the 1st but he must be shiting bricks over this .

 

[I Am Legion]

You will start seeing this more and more. The avg citizen is done with mass immigration and they will start voting for parties they think will control it, whether it is true or not.

 

[HereticBD]

It's looking like a huge miscalculation on his part , historically 2nd round voting has often been different from the 1st but he must be shiting bricks over this .

He was probably fucked no matter what, and rolled the dice now rather than later when they're possibly even more unpopular. Doesn't seem like he had a very favorable outlook on their future, and threw the emergency switch to try and salvage what they could.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

It's looking like a huge miscalculation on his part , historically 2nd round voting has often been different from the 1st but he must be shiting bricks over this .

Isn't Macron having his party drop out of races so that the party that came in second has a chance to win?

Anyways, not in France, but with the UK having their elecions coming up, and Farage is running, who is the UK's "far right", he has a campaign event going on right now with Chirosa.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

You will start seeing this more and more. The avg citizen is done with mass immigration and they will start voting for parties they think will control it, whether it is true or not.

I've definitely noticed in various online groups I'm in, where any time politics got brought up all you got was the usual progressives platitudes from the Europeans, now there is always a strong 'conservative' presence that wasn't there three years ago.

 

[PBAC]

Far right coming in third and it looks like a Macron victory

two major victories for two democratic parties in Europe this week

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Far right coming in third and it looks like a Macron victory

two major victories for two democratic parties in Europe this week

You mean two victories for leftist parties in Europe.

They will change nothing unfortunately.