Lorenzo destroying FPWs (Fighter Pay Warriors)

[Rational Poster]

The distinction between amateur and professional athletics is not semantics. They are different things.

re: speculation - yes, this is all speculation. What else could it possibly be? A double blind study?

Again, it's a semantic point that made no sense. At which point did I say NCAA was a professional sport? I'm well aware it's amateur, just like the Olympic wrestlers and boxers.

I disagree with your premise that the UFC is failing because they're not luring these amateur athletes into MMA or that even increasing pay by X% is going to lure them.

Let's not forget the best fighters of all time had no collegiate or olympic wrestling or boxing experience.

 

[rjmbrd]

Fair enough. The post to which I replied seemed to imply that elite professional athletes were intrinsically more deserving of money than teachers. If that wasn't what you were saying, I apologize.

Certainly not.

Sports are a form of entertainment - and competition develops important qualities - but it is still just athletics. I would never say it is as important as teachers, or that teachers are less deserving.

 

[rjmbrd]

I disagree with your premise that the UFC is failing because they're not luring these amateur athletes into MMA or that even increasing pay by X% is going to lure them.

I've never said 'the UFC is failing' and would not say such a thing.

What is demonstrably, indisputably true is they have an average age far older than other major professional sports like the NBA, NHL, MLB and NFL.

If you want to argue its more fun to see guys in their late 30's fighting - OK. I would rather see the best athletes we can attract, which common sense should dictate increases with 1:1 reciprocity with fighter pay increase.

If the starting pay for a UFC heavyweight was... 10 million dollars... would it increase the talent pool?

 

[Coolidge]

My argument is Lombard and Romero are not elite among their peers in the sports they came from - they are elite in MMA because the divisions are cartoonishly thin the higher you go. I cannot help that you won't read my posts.

My point - consolidate it to this and dispute me:

1) An average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division is abysmal for a professional sport

2) it is indisputably older than other professional sports like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL


Do not tell me seeing guys in their late 30's is the best athletes available.

You have to be stupid or a liar to say if you increased the pay up by X%, it wouldn't increase the talent pool with a 1:1 reciprocity.

You're babbling again. You said Lombard and Romero are not elite athletes on the basis that they're older fighters who competed in the Olympics ages ago. If that blanket statement doesn't apply to the NBA players I named, then why would I put any stock into what you have to say about Lombard and Romero specifically? Even if you were 100% correct about the divisions being thin, it doesn't for one second mean that Lombard and Romero are not elite athletes. The Light Heavyweight division is thin. That doesn't mean Jon Jones is not an elite athlete. Whether you are an elite fighter or not doesn't depend on the people around you.

 

[Rational Poster]

I've never said 'the UFC is failing' and would not say such a thing.

What is demonstrably, indisputably true is they have an average age far older than other major professional sports like the NBA, NHL, MLB and NFL.

If you want to argue its more fun to see guys in their late 30's fighting - OK. I would rather see the best athletes we can attract, which common sense should dictate increases with 1:1 reciprocity with fighter pay increase.

If the starting pay for a UFC heavyweight was... 10 million dollars... would it increase the talent pool?

$600M/yr revenue best year of all time and you want a $10M starting pay for green heavyweights?

 

[Coolidge]

I would rather see the best athletes we can attract, which common sense should dictate increases with 1:1 reciprocity with fighter pay increase.

Which I'm guessing is why you're a fan of the flat-footed, pot-smoking, lackadaisical Nick Diaz.

 

[rjmbrd]

$600M/yr revenue best year of all time and you want a $10M starting pay for green heavyweights?

Of course not.

It is an illustration.

Who will dispute a starting pay of 10 million for a heavyweight wouldn't increase the talent pool? At 5 million it would increase by half the amount 10 million did, and so on. You would probably have a fairly smooth curve as you altered the risk -vs- reward.

Currently, the risk -vs- reward gets you an average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division. OK - if you are thrilled with that, great.

 

[rjmbrd]

It's amusing that you're pretending you've actually factored in the rest of the roster. If your numbers are an actual representation of the totality of the UFC's roster, then show your source. I'll wait.

It was compiled and produce by @MacDougall here on Sherdog.

Feel free to call him a liar.

 

[Coolidge]

It was compiled and produce by @MacDougall here on Sherdog.

Feel free to call him a liar.

Appealing to a forum user's research is not an argument.

 

[rjmbrd]

Appealing to a forum user's research is not an argument.

There are only 39 heavyweights currently signed. His work notates 35.2 as the average age heavyweight.

I will compile all 39 from wikipedia and wage you $500 it is accurate within 2 years.

You will also have to delete your account if I am right.

Let me know if we have a deal.

 

[helltoupee]

Not really man. They are building a new NBA arena where I live and the team doesn't own that. Matter fact I am part owner. Taxes pay for a lot of that cause the city and state realize how much business it brings to the city.

Funny thing is, you don't share in the profits, you are sold a bill of goods that it "brings in business".

The Chargers have been trying to get the taxpayers to pay for a new stadium for years, only now the city has finally said fuck you and hopefully they will leave.

I mean seriously, how many private businesses have the benefit of the taxpayers paying for a brand new building without any liability or revenue sharing on the business owner's part. Fuck those billionaires and trying to get the average man to pay for their business ventures.

 

[rjmbrd]

Funny thing is, you don't share in the profits, you are sold a bill of goods that it "brings in business".

The Chargers have been trying to get the taxpayers to pay for a new stadium for years, only now the city has finally said fuck you and hopefully they will leave.

I mean seriously, how many private businesses have the benefit of the taxpayers paying for a brand new building without any liability or revenue sharing on the business owner's part. Fuck those billionaires and trying to get the average man to pay for their business ventures.

It really is crazy. I cannot recall the sources but I read a long well thought and cited post on Reddit on this topic a few months ago and it absolutely blew my mind.

 

[Rational Poster]

Of course not.

It is an illustration.

Who will dispute a starting pay of 10 million for a heavyweight wouldn't increase the talent pool? At 5 million it would increase by half the amount 10 million did, and so on. You would probably have a fairly smooth curve as you altered the risk -vs- reward.

Currently, the risk -vs- reward gets you an average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division. OK - if you are thrilled with that, great.

No one is sitting on the sidelines thinking, if only the UFC paid me $5-10M I'd get punched in the face for a living.

UFC is paying $10M+ to fighters now that are worth it... but you need to prove your worth first.

 

[12ga.]

Of course not.

It is an illustration.

Who will dispute a starting pay of 10 million for a heavyweight wouldn't increase the talent pool? At 5 million it would increase by half the amount 10 million did, and so on. You would probably have a fairly smooth curve as you altered the risk -vs- reward.

Currently, the risk -vs- reward gets you an average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division. OK - if you are thrilled with that, great.

Its not up to the UFC to pay more. It's fighters responsibility to make sure they get paid more.

It's generations of basketball players before make the NBA attractive career option for millions of kids because the players fought for it and still are fighting their billionaire owners. Not billionaire owners acting out of goodness of hearts.

You blame UFC for low pay, I blame the fighters not acting in best interests for their low pay.

It's like people blame apple for sweat shops with child labor who jump out windows from exhaustion. I blame the local populations of host nations for having no labor movement like we had 100s of years.

 

[rjmbrd]

No one is sitting on the sidelines thinking, if only the UFC paid me $5-10M I'd get punched in the face for a living.

UFC is paying $10M+ to fighters now that are worth it... but you need to prove your worth first.

We're splintering too far into different topics.

My single, illustrative point is dramatically increasing fighter pay would net you more applicants to the sport?

True or false?

 

[Rational Poster]

We're splintering too far into different topics.

My single, illustrative point is dramatically increasing fighter pay would net you more applicants to the sport?

True or false?

False, and whoever money did lure they would likely be shit fighters.

 

[Coolidge]

It was compiled and produce by @MacDougall here on Sherdog.

Feel free to call him a liar.

Just did the numbers myself and factored in every active Heavyweight on the roster. The average age came to: '32.421052631579'

I'll call you the liar since you're the one spouting the number. You're outside two years, so please delete your account.

 

[helltoupee]

It really is crazy. I cannot recall the sources but I read a long well thought and cited post on Reddit on this topic a few months ago and it absolutely blew my mind.

Ya, it involves a lot more than a brand new stadium. The Chargers also wanted $500 million worth of prime real estate 'donated' to them by the city to build the thing on as well.

 

[rjmbrd]

Its not up to the UFC to pay more. It's fighters responsibility to make sure they get paid more.

It's generations of basketball players before make the NBA attractive career option for millions of kids because the players fought for it and still are fighting their billionaire owners. Not billionaire owners acting out of goodness of hearts.

You blame UFC for low pay, I blame the fighters not acting in best interests for their low pay.

It's like people blame apple for sweat shops with child labor who jump out windows from exhaustion. I blame the local populations of host nations for having no labor movement like we had 100s of years.

To be clear, I am not saying it is 'up to the UFC' to do anything. The only thing the UFC is obligated to do is make money.

I am arguing - my personal preference - an average age at heavyweight, the marquee division of the sport, of 35.2 years old is not seeing the best athletes in their prime.

We get a thinner, lower quality talent pool because of the current structure. My personal preference would be to grow the sport by attracting a larger talent pool.

 

[Filthymaggot]

Who says they aren't?

Fighter contracts are the highest we've seen since the Reebok deal went into effect.

Is that just a coincidence?

So are live gate sales and ppv sales. Rory made 58k for a title fight, so no, they aren't paying fighters more. Only a handful of fighters are paid fairly.

Miesha was making something like 160k in sponsorships per fight, now she gets like 15k Reebok money. Total bs