Lorenzo destroying FPWs (Fighter Pay Warriors)

[SocraticMethod]

The median public school teacher salary is 53k a year. Suffice to say I would think being an elite professional athlete should shoot past that.

Teachers are a lot more important that cage fighters.

 

[Rational Poster]

I didn't say its easy to lure athletes from other sports, I have no interest in defending points you are proposing yourself.

My point is - it is absolutely common sense at FACE VALUE that increasing fighter pay would deepen the talent pool.

Yes it is, your point is if the UFC paid more, more NCAA athletes would decide to become MMA fighters.

That is exactly your point, UFC can use money to lure fighters from other sports.

 

[Coolidge]

Context is everything - that is how adults express information that actually means something.

You apparently don't know what the word 'context' means. Context would be relevant if I had said something to the effect of: The UFC has signed numerous Olympic athletes from the 2012 era. I didn't. My statement was simply that they had signed a number of Olympic athletes, which they have. Your 'context' argument is a fabrication; a straw-man argument.

 

[rjmbrd]

Yoel Romero is 39; Hector Lombard is 38. There are 11 players on the NBA roster that are either the same age or older than those two. Two of those players, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki, are relately recent NBA champions and
are still competitive. The fact that Romero and Lombard competed long ago does not preclude them from being 'elite athletes'.

The average age in the NBA is 26.8 years old.

Compare that with this abysmal list:

1. Heavyweight - 35.2 yo - Oldest = Hunt (41) - Youngest = JDS (31).
2. Middleweight - 33.8 yo - Oldest = Romero, Belfort (38) - Youngest = Whittaker (25)
3. Light Heavyweight - 32.8 - Oldest = Cormier, Teixeira, Evans (36) - Youngest = Jones, Gus (28)
4. Welterweight - 32.1 - Oldest = Maia (38) - Youngest = MacDonald (26)
5. Flyweight - 29.5 - Oldest = Makovsky (33) - Youngest = Horiguchi (25)
6. Lightweight - 29.4 - Oldest = Cerrone (33) - Youngest = Dariush (26)
7. Featherweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Edgar (34) - Youngest = Holloway (24)
8. Bantamweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Faber (36) - Youngest = McDonald, Almeida (24)

In the lighter weight divisions you see the average age start to lean back towards a realistic number for humans in their athletic prime.

Average age of 35.2 years in the heavyweight division is a joke. It is the geriatric division. That is not disputable.

You are terrible at this game. Take a break from posting you've been hitting it too hard for your first month on this board.

 

[Coolidge]

The average age in the NBA is 26.8 years old.

Compare that with this abysmal list:

1. Heavyweight - 35.2 yo - Oldest = Hunt (41) - Youngest = JDS (31).
2. Middleweight - 33.8 yo - Oldest = Romero, Belfort (38) - Youngest = Whittaker (25)
3. Light Heavyweight - 32.8 - Oldest = Cormier, Teixeira, Evans (36) - Youngest = Jones, Gus (28)
4. Welterweight - 32.1 - Oldest = Maia (38) - Youngest = MacDonald (26)
5. Flyweight - 29.5 - Oldest = Makovsky (33) - Youngest = Horiguchi (25)
6. Lightweight - 29.4 - Oldest = Cerrone (33) - Youngest = Dariush (26)
7. Featherweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Edgar (34) - Youngest = Holloway (24)
8. Bantamweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Faber (36) - Youngest = McDonald, Almeida (24)

In the lighter weight divisions you see the average age start to lean back towards a realistic number for humans in their athletic prime.

Average age of 35.2 years in the heavyweight division is a joke. It is the geriatric division. That is not disputable.

You are terrible at this game. Take a break from posting you've been hitting it too hard for your first month on this board.

You're shifting the goalposts again. You said they're not 'elite athletes' and pointed to the date they competed as evidence. By your own logic, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki are not elite athletes.

You're not even trying at this point.

 

[rjmbrd]

Yes it is, your point is if the UFC paid more, more NCAA athletes would decide to become MMA fighters.

That is exactly your point, UFC can use money to lure fighters from other sports.

Sorry, you are unaware that NCAA wrestling is amateur athletics. It is not another professional sport.

If you are asking me if more highly successful amateur heavyweight wrestlers would enter MMA instead of the job force elsewhere if the pay was better in MMA, the answer is yes.

If you are asking why they chose the job market instead of another sport, you should know it is completely common for elite heavyweight wrestlers to try to make an NFL team. It happens constantly. The two NCAA heavyweight champions we've had in this sport - Brock and Cole Konrad, tried to make the Vikings and Jets respectively before entering MMA as a last resort.

If the pay was better in MMA, many more elite athletes would attempt to make a UFC run.

 

[Rational Poster]

You apparently don't know what the word 'context' means. Context would be relevant if I had said something to the effect of: The UFC has signed numerous Olympic athletes from the 2012 era. I didn't. My statement was simply that they had signed a number of Olympic athletes, which they have. Your 'context' argument is a fabrication; a straw-man argument.

Yoel Romero has been fighting under Zuffa banner since 2011

DC has been since 2011 as well

Lombard since 2012

Cejudo since 2014

Ronda since 2011


Thought this would help, rjmbrd is making it sound like UFC signed them yesterday.

 

[rjmbrd]

You're shifting the goalposts again. You said they're not 'elite athletes' and pointed to the date they competed as evidence. By your own logic, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki are not elite athletes.

You're not even trying at this point.

I have no idea what nonsense you are saying. It's like arguing with a sofa.

My point - consolidate it to this and dispute me:

1) An average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division is abysmal for a professional sport

2) it is indisputably older than other professional sports like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL


Do not tell me seeing guys in their late 30's is the best athletes available.

You have to be stupid or a liar to say if you increased the pay up by X%, it wouldn't increase the talent pool with a 1:1 reciprocity.

If starting UFC pay for a heavyweight was 1 million dollars a year - the base pay - would we get better athletes? Of course. Now scale that number down somewhere between 12k and a million - somewhere in the middle. You would get a scaled down increase in quality commensurate with it.

 

[Coolidge]

The average age in the NBA is 26.8 years old.

Compare that with this abysmal list:

1. Heavyweight - 35.2 yo - Oldest = Hunt (41) - Youngest = JDS (31).
2. Middleweight - 33.8 yo - Oldest = Romero, Belfort (38) - Youngest = Whittaker (25)
3. Light Heavyweight - 32.8 - Oldest = Cormier, Teixeira, Evans (36) - Youngest = Jones, Gus (28)
4. Welterweight - 32.1 - Oldest = Maia (38) - Youngest = MacDonald (26)
5. Flyweight - 29.5 - Oldest = Makovsky (33) - Youngest = Horiguchi (25)
6. Lightweight - 29.4 - Oldest = Cerrone (33) - Youngest = Dariush (26)
7. Featherweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Edgar (34) - Youngest = Holloway (24)
8. Bantamweight - 29.3 - Oldest = Faber (36) - Youngest = McDonald, Almeida (24)

.

You don't find the average age just by comparing oldest to youngest, genius.

So if the Heavyweight division happened to have a 70 year old fighter (and the youngest 31 years of age), you would conclude that the average age in the division is 50.

 

[Rational Poster]

Sorry, you are unaware that NCAA wrestling is amateur athletics. It is not another professional sport.

If you are asking me if more highly successful amateur heavyweight wrestlers would enter MMA instead of the job force elsewhere if the pay was better in MMA, the answer is yes.

If you are asking why they chose the job market instead of another sport, you should know it is completely common for elite heavyweight wrestlers to try to make an NFL team. It happens constantly. The two NCAA heavyweight champions we've had in this sport - Brock and Cole Konrad, tried to make the Vikings and Jets respectively before entering MMA as a last resort.

If the pay was better in MMA, many more elite athletes would attempt to make a UFC run.

So you're resorting to semantics and speculation now?

 

[Liquid Smoke]

The thing is, most of those guys that are getting paid $3,000 didn't sell $3,000 worth of tickets or pay-per-views. And in most cases those guys are probably making more money than the UFC makes off of them -- certainly in the immediate future.

Source

And this was when Barnett and the UFC were estranged. No company man bullshit here just straight talk.

 

[rjmbrd]

You don't find the average age just by comparing oldest to youngest, genius.

So if the Heavyweight division happened to have a 70 year old fighter (and the youngest 31 years of age), you would conclude that the average age in the division is 50.

Those are the average ages with the oldest and youngest added as a supplemental illustration. You would know that just by calculating the very first line averages out to 36, not 35.2 as noted.

You are a world class ding-dong.

 

[kflo]

Sorry, you are unaware that NCAA wrestling is amateur athletics. It is not another professional sport.

If you are asking me if more highly successful amateur heavyweight wrestlers would enter MMA instead of the job force elsewhere if the pay was better in MMA, the answer is yes.

If you are asking why they chose the job market instead of another sport, you should know it is completely common for elite heavyweight wrestlers to try to make an NFL team. It happens constantly. The two NCAA heavyweight champions we've had in this sport - Brock and Cole Konrad, tried to make the Vikings and Jets respectively before entering MMA as a last resort.

If the pay was better in MMA, many more elite athletes would attempt to make a UFC run.

you don't make a ufc run. you start training in mma. then you start fighting in mma. then maybe you sign with the ufc. then maybe you win some fights. then maybe you become a star.

they're not competing for talent with the nfl. if someone can make an nfl roster it will always make financial sense to play football. unless you simply love to fight.

 

[Coolidge]

I have no idea what nonsense you are saying. It's like arguing with a sofa.

My point - consolidate it to this and dispute me:

1) An average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division is abysmal for a professional sport

2) it is indisputably older than other professional sports like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL

Reading comprehension is difficult for you, I know. Once again: You said Lombard and Romero were not elite athletes. Your evidence was the fact that they competed in the Olympics 12/16 years ago. Your argument was that they weren't elite athletes because they are old. The two NBA players I named are old and still relevant. Don't shift away from the lie just because I exposed it. Acknowledge it, then move on.

 

[12ga.]

Are pensions and benefits figured in to that number? 53K plus a pension and a summer off? Sounds like a sweet ass deal to me.

Sorry for derailing the thread but the myth of underpaid school teachers pushes my buttons. My apologies.

Everyone thinks they are underpaid. If they dont they are a fool.

It's all opinion and frankly a social construct. It reminds me way back when football players started fighting/striking for millions everyone was like this is BS look at how poor so and so "noble" profession is. Now no one thinks anything about millions they make because they have been acclimated to it. Most people say they deserve it.

Anyway you deserve what you cant get. Football players teachers policeman etc were smart enough to get more via organizing. Fighters are back biters and franky kinda not forward looking which prolly prevents it.

 

[rjmbrd]

Teachers are a lot more important that cage fighters.

Of course. They are also far more important than players in the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB.

Despite that fact, they have no trouble getting the best athletes to attempt to join their ranks, because money moves the needle.

 

[Coolidge]

Those are the average ages with the oldest and youngest added as a supplemental illustration. You would know that just by calculating the very first line averages out to 36, not 35.2 as noted.

You are a world class ding-dong.

It's amusing that you're pretending you've actually factored in the rest of the roster. If your numbers are an actual representation of the totality of the UFC's roster, then show your source. I'll wait.

 

[rjmbrd]

So you're resorting to semantics and speculation now?

The distinction between amateur and professional athletics is not semantics. They are different things.

re: speculation - yes, this is all speculation. What else could it possibly be? A double blind study?

 

[SocraticMethod]

Of course. They are also far more important than players in the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB.

Despite that fact, they have no trouble getting the best athletes to attempt to join their ranks, because money moves the needle.

Fair enough. The post to which I replied seemed to imply that elite professional athletes were intrinsically more deserving of money than teachers. If that wasn't what you were saying, I apologize.

 

[rjmbrd]

Reading comprehension is difficult for you, I know. Once again: You said Lombard and Romero were not elite athletes. Your evidence was the fact that they competed in the Olympics 12/16 years ago. Your argument was that they weren't elite athletes because they are old. The two NBA players I named are old and still relevant. Don't shift away from the lie just because I exposed it. Acknowledge it, then move on.

My argument is Lombard and Romero are not elite among their peers in the sports they came from - they are elite in MMA because the divisions are cartoonishly thin the higher you go. I cannot help that you won't read my posts.

My point - consolidate it to this and dispute me:

1) An average age of 35.2 in the heavyweight division is abysmal for a professional sport

2) it is indisputably older than other professional sports like the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL


Do not tell me seeing guys in their late 30's is the best athletes available.

You have to be stupid or a liar to say if you increased the pay up by X%, it wouldn't increase the talent pool with a 1:1 reciprocity.