Lima: Hype vs. Reality

[mkt]

I'll start by saying Lima is Top 5 in my book (more on that in a minute). However, many people here are saying Rory is #1 and Lima is the #2 WW. I think that's more based on hype and anti-UFC sentiment than good reasoning.

First, remember styles make fights. Rory beat Woodley and I think he's a bad match-up for Tyron. However, Rory lost to Wonderboy and lost twice to prime Lawler. We can't just ignore that. Both Lawler and Wonderboy did what Lima failed to do--keep the fight standing long enough to outpoint Rory. And Woodley beat both Lawler and Wonderboy. Again, styles make fights. With Lima's rather basic and underwhelming ground game, Woodley would be a very tough fight for him. We can't just assume Lima would beat him, as so many people here are doing. Maia might even be a big challenge for Lima.

Lawler has clearly gone downhill due to age, too many 5-round wars/wear (he's been fighting since 2001) and maybe the USADA. He was a beast when he fought Rory, though, and would've been a very tough fight for anyone (including Lima).

While Rory beat Woodley, Tyron did what Rory couldn't do in his 6 years in the UFC--win and defend a belt. For that reason, I'd rank Lima behind Woodley, Rory and Wonderboy right now. A wild card here is Till, who has his own hype train. With his MT, size and maybe TDD (needs to be tested against a top-notch wrestler), he could be a huge challenge to anyone, including Lima and Rory. However, he has to beat someone better than Cerrone before I declare him elite.

For the record, I'm a Rory fan and it pains me to say that Woodley deserves the #1 spot right now.

 

[Meathead Jock]

Seems like they have pretty equal claims to it to me.

Rory - I'd only have losing to Wonderboy moving forward
Woodley - I'd have losing to Rory moving forward.


Lima I thought had Rory beat as they entered the 5th round but his laying there in guard instead of taking a risk to get back to his feet made me think less of him. Regardless he was right there so top 5 is probably fitting.

 

[mkt]

Lima I thought had Rory beat as they entered the 5th round but his laying there in guard instead of taking a risk to get back to his feet made me think less of him. Regardless he was right there so top 5 is probably fitting.

Yeah, I have no problem with Lima being Top 5. But I'd favor Woodley over him due to his wrestling and Wonderboy-Lima is a toss-up. Again, though, I give Woodley the nod over Rory because he won the UFC belt and defended it multiple times. And I put Wonderboy over Lima in rankings due to what he's done (wins over Rory, Whittaker, Masvidal, first guy to KO Hendricks, draw with champ Woodley > wins over Koreshkov and Larkin).

 

[manboy<3]

Woodley, Wonderboy, Rory are all more proven

Koreshkov has a better ground game and gas tank with about equal striking and experience

even if they are 1-1 in fights Koreshkov is the more complete fighter

Lima would be like as high as #4 in my list

Still a very good ranking for a guy who fights in Bellator and has very clear holes in his game

 

[A.S. Deep]

It's either Rory, Woodley, Wonderboy, Askren, or Lima. Problem is they can take each other out so there's no definitive number 1.

Rory beats Woodley and Lima, but loses to Wonderboy.
Woodley beats Wonderboy and Lima, but loses to Rory.
Lima vs. Wonderboy would be epic. No clue who'd win.
Askren beats Lima and probably Wonderboy, but Rory and Woodley can beat him.

That's why the correct answer is still GSP

 

[mkt]

It's either Rory, Woodley, Wonderboy, Askren, or Lima. Problem is they can take each other out so there's no definitive number 1.

Rory beats Woodley and Lima, but loses to Wonderboy.
Woodley beats Wonderboy and Lima, but loses to Rory.
Lima vs. Wonderboy would be epic. No clue who'd win.
Askren beats Lima and probably Wonderboy, but Rory and Woodley can beat him.

That's why the correct answer is still GSP

2009 GSP beats them all...I agree there. MMA has evolved, but prime GSP is the biggest exception IMO.

 

[CC27]

Right now I'd say top 3 are

Tyron
WOnderboy
Rory

Lima isnt top 5, he's top 10 though.

 

[Meathead Jock]

Right now I'd say top 3 are

Tyron
WOnderboy
Rory

Lima isnt top 5, he's top 10 though.

Agree with the three fighters in your top 3 rankings.
Curious to hear what two fighters you would have after them you would rank above Lima?

 

[AGEZ909]

Fair assessment by the OP

I could see lima being top 5, but hard to move someone up After a defeat. Lima is no doubt top ten.

A Lima vs woodley fight would be interesting. Lima is decent off his back, but has been laid on before. He is basically good at not getting too beat up. Woodley could take Lima down, but let’s not forget that woodley likes to stand at range until he explodes(rory fight, wonderboy fights, Maia fights). He also tends to gas. He should look to close the range as soon as he could if he were to fight Lima. Give Lima range and he feasts on your leg. It should be noted that both woodley and Lima tend to gas, but Lima had surprisingly good cardio during the rory fight.

It would be an interesting fight indeed.

 

[Dozer .]

Lima is a top 3 WW. He would have finished Rory but his fight IQ cost him.

Who else batters a prime Rory with a fully healed nose like that standing? Lima is currently the best striker in the world imo.

I favor Lima over Woodley, Wonderboy, and Rory in a rematch.

 

[mkt]

Lima is a top 3 WW. He would have finished Rory but his fight IQ cost him.

Who else batters a prime Rory with a fully healed nose like that standing? I favor Lima over Woodley and Wonderboy.

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This is the kind of Sherdog illogic I'm talking about. Lima had one really good kick that caused a freak injury. I give him full credit for it, but how often does this happen? How many other fighters has Lima given a hematoma to? Zero? What are the odds of him repeating that kick in a rematch with Rory? Very low.

And despite the injury, Lima couldn't capitalize on it and beat Rory like Lawler did twice (once finishing Rory) and like Wonderboy did.

There's no rational basis for claiming Lima is a Top 3 fighter right now. He'll have to earn that.

 

[AGEZ909]

This is the kind of Sherdog illogic I'm talking about. Lima had one really good kick that caused a freak injury. I give him full credit for it, but how often does this happen? How many other fighters has Lima given a hematoma to? Zero? What are the odds of him repeating that kick in a rematch with Rory? Very low.

And despite the injury, Lima couldn't capitalize on it and beat Rory like Lawler did twice (once finishing Rory) and like Wonderboy did.

There's no rational basis for claiming Lima is a Top 3 fighter right now. He'll have to earn that.

Rory said that he started feeling the kicks in the first round. It was an accumulation of kicks. Lima has proven to have lethal kicks in the past

 

[mkt]

Agree with the three fighters in your top 3 rankings.
Curious to hear what two fighters you would have after them you would rank above Lima?

I'm not sure either. Maia and Lawler were near the top until a year or two ago, but age and losses have gotten the best of them. RDA has looked quite good at WW, but I want to see him against a Top 5 guy. I'm still not sure if he's big enough for this class. Till is very interesting, but needs to beat a Top 5 or Top 10 WW as well.

 

[mkt]

Rory said that he started feeling the kicks in the first round. It was an accumulation of kicks. Lima has proven to have lethal kicks in the past

Fair enough, but my point still stands on Lima failing to capitalize, especially when he seemingly had Rory in a bad spot on the ground. He failed to do what Wonderboy did and win the fight.

 

[Dozer .]

This is the kind of Sherdog illogic I'm talking about. Lima had one really good kick that caused a freak injury. I give him full credit for it, but how often does this happen? How many other fighters has Lima given a hematoma to? Zero? What are the odds of him repeating that kick in a rematch with Rory? Very low.

And despite the injury, Lima couldn't capitalize on it and beat Rory like Lawler did twice (once finishing Rory) and like Wonderboy did.

There's no rational basis for claiming Lima is a Top 3 fighter right now. He'll have to earn that.

Have you ever seen Lima fight? Lima has proven that he has the most devastating leg kicks in the game.

He battered Koreshkov’s leg which led to Andrey getting wild and KOd. He forced Larkin to go southpaw after a couple of leg kicks. He TKOd Rick Hawn with leg kicks. Those are just a few examples.

Lima is a top 3 WW.

 

[mkt]

Have you ever seen Lima fight? Lima has proven that he has the most devastating leg kicks in the game.

He battered Koreshkov’s leg which led to Andrey getting wild and KOd. He forced Larkin to go southpaw after a couple of leg kicks. He TKOd Rick Hawn with leg kicks. Those are just a few examples.

Lima is a top 3 WW.

Again, there's no rational basis for this until he beats a Top 3 fighter. Barboza has done serious damage with leg kicks, too, but he did about as well against Khabib as Lima did against Askren.

"Amazing leg kicks," "incredible takedowns," "super subs," etc. don't make anyone a Top 3 fighter. There are plenty of fighters who excel in certain areas.

 

[Dozer .]

Again, there's no rational basis for this until he beats a Top 3 fighter. Barboza has done serious damage with leg kicks, too, but he did about as well against Khabib as Lima did against Askren.

"Amazing leg kicks," "incredible takedowns," "super subs," etc. don't make anyone a Top 3 fighter. There are plenty of fighters who excel in certain areas.

We’ll agree to disagree my man.

 

[AGEZ909]

Have you ever seen Lima fight? Lima has proven that he has the most devastating leg kicks in the game.

He battered Koreshkov’s leg which led to Andrey getting wild and KOd. He forced Larkin to go southpaw after a couple of leg kicks. He TKOd Rick Hawn with leg kicks. Those are just a few examples.

Lima is a top 3 WW.

Agreed. He also tkoed Michail Tsarev with legs kicks if anyone wants to watch thst fight


Lima’s leg kicks are undeniable

 

[Kingz]

Lima is a top 3 WW. He would have finished Rory but his fight IQ cost him.

Who else batters a prime Rory with a fully healed nose like that standing? Lima is currently the best striker in the world imo.

I favor Lima over Woodley, Wonderboy, and Rory in a rematch.

View attachment 329291

High praise. Not sure I agree. His leg kicks are probably the best at WW and he’s probably the best counter puncher. He did benefit a lot from Herzogs quick hook on the ground. Other refs probably wouldn’t do a lot of the stand ups or breaks.

I think he’s top 5. His stock didn’t drop for me and I’d like to see him get another crack at some point.

 

[mantis_fist]

Lima has some nasty kicks. If he can work on his tdd, then he'll win rematch.