Let's go back to when Tai Tuivasa "potential" meant something.

[LEWIS540]

This.
Like Hunt, his upside is that he's got a decent chin (Though not on Hunt's level) and hits a ton, so his fights are rarely boring.

But the glaring holes in his game mean his ceiling will always be limited.

Yeah, Hunt being such an anomaly in terms of both his proportions and skill set, really made him an awkward opponent. Even prime Fedor had a tough time working him out.

Think he ended up with a losing MMA record, but no way that told the story.

 

[Spiderbite]

Yeah, Hunt being such an anomaly in terms of both his proportions and skill set, really made him an awkward opponent. Even prime Fedor had a tough time working him out.

Think he ended up with a losing MMA record, but no way that told the story.

Exactly.

 

[Kb7]

Never has potential.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

The oldest story in sports! - particularly heavyweight combat sports.

As much as our action figures and hollywood movies like to imply that you can't be good at fighting unless you look like a body builder, that just is simply not the case at HW.

It's not like there have been a couple of guys who did okay with significant chub - there are LOTS of HW and even some LHWs packing some pudge who have reached the elite of the sport. If you didn't know any better, prime Fedor looks like an alcoholic brick layer, and he was an absolute killing machine.

For every one of those guys though, it is impossible not to imagine what would have happened if they had lost weight and either dropped a weightclass or if they had stayed at HW but added significant speed with their new, slimmer body. It's tempting to think anybody with some pudge should just drop a weight class, but there's huge money to be made in championship fighting. If Roy Nelson suspected that he could drop down and clean out the LHW division, you can bet he'd have done it - or have been forced to do it by his coaches/family.

That would be an interesting thread - a comprehensive discussion of the times a fighter with visible bodyfat thinned out and/or dropped a weightclass. I'd have to think they don't find success with this, or else we'd never see a chubby HW, and LHW would be stacked.

The HW division has been around for a LONG time and there is now a significant accumulation of evidence to demonstrate that the ideal fighting weight is <240 for fighters under 6'1", between 240-250 for fighters between 6'1" and 6'4", and between 250-260 for fighters 6'5" and above.

You're idiotically fixated on form. No one cares what Fedor looked like. He objectively weighed in between 220 and 235 for his entire prime, which is what you would expect for a fighter of his height. DC also, objectively, weighed in under 240 pounds, which is appropriate for his height. Most UFC heavyweight champions are between 6'1" and 6'4", and weigh between 240 and 250.

The only heavyweight who ever won a UFC HW championship while actually cutting down to 265 is Brock Lesnar, and he flies in the face of everything you're trying to espouse, because he was a literal action figure. Form is irrelevant, but the functional speed and agility advantage that you have at 245 pounds compared to 285 pounds is huge.

Given that he weighed in at 265.6 pounds, Tai Tuivasa likely cuts down to 265. As in, he walks around above 265 and actually has to drain himself to get under 265. There is zero proven record of fighters being successful when doing this. Mark Hunt and Roy Nelson have 0 titles between the two of them, they each ended their careers around .500 (Hunt below .500). He doesn't have to drop to light heavyweight, that's absurd, but the ideal range for a fighter of his height is 240-250, he should take heed of that.

 

[Stump]

The HW division has been around for a LONG time and there is now a significant accumulation of evidence to demonstrate that the ideal fighting weight is <240 for fighters under 6'1", between 240-250 for fighters between 6'1" and 6'4", and between 250-260 for fighters 6'5" and above.

You're idiotically fixated on form. No one cares what Fedor looked like. He objectively weighed in between 220 and 235 for his entire prime, which is what you would expect for a fighter of his height. DC also, objectively, weighed in under 240 pounds, which is appropriate for his height. Most UFC heavyweight champions are between 6'1" and 6'4", and weigh between 240 and 250.

The only heavyweight who ever won a UFC HW championship while actually cutting down to 265 is Brock Lesnar, and he flies in the face of everything you're trying to espouse, because he was a literal action figure. Form is irrelevant, but the functional speed and agility advantage that you have at 245 pounds compared to 285 pounds is huge.

Given that he weighed in at 265.6 pounds, Tai Tuivasa likely cuts down to 265. As in, he walks around above 265 and actually has to drain himself to get under 265. There is zero proven record of fighters being successful when doing this. Mark Hunt and Roy Nelson have 0 titles between the two of them, they each ended their careers around .500 (Hunt below .500). He doesn't have to drop to light heavyweight, that's absurd, but the ideal range for a fighter of his height is 240-250, he should take heed of that.

This is a shitty post. You've not actually comprehended what I've written and launched some diatribe about your supposed evidence while calling me an idiot for making very reasonable points.

You should feel bad. You've added nothing to the conversation and made yourself look like a tool

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

This is a shitty post. You've not actually comprehended what I've written and launched some diatribe about your supposed evidence while calling me an idiot for making very reasonable points.

You should feel bad. You've added nothing to the conversation and made yourself look like a tool

I understood your comment and it was stupid. I don't know if you're trying to cover for some deep set insecurity. But your analysis was bad and I don't think anyone bought it.

 

[Stump]

I understood your comment and it was stupid. I don't know if you're trying to cover for some deep set insecurity. But your analysis was bad and I don't think anyone bought it.

You didn't. "The only heavyweight who ever won a UFC HW championship while actually cutting down to 265 is Brock Lesnar, and he flies in the face of everything you're trying to espouse, because he was a literal action figure."

...yeah. that IS my point, you dolt. The ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT to line up with the action figure image.


"You're idiotically fixated on form. No one cares what Fedor looked like. "
Except the post I was responding to. Thanks for resonding unprompted in any way to share your take on what people care about, though. Given your inability to comprehend what you're reading, I don't ascribe much value to it.

 

[Dorkman]

Like Mark Hunt before him, he’s an overachiever.

Had one (maybe 2) big weapon and it took him a long way.

Hunt fought way more intelligently than tai does. He’d actively defend takedowns as best he could instead of refusing to dig under hooks or pushing the head down and away in favour of weak punches while getting taken down. And was much more selective in his strikes on the feet. Tai just has very poor fight IQ that’s likely to never change.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

You didn't. "The only heavyweight who ever won a UFC HW championship while actually cutting down to 265 is Brock Lesnar, and he flies in the face of everything you're trying to espouse, because he was a literal action figure."

...yeah. that IS my point, you dolt. The ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT to line up with the action figure image.


"You're idiotically fixated on form. No one cares what Fedor looked like. "
Except the post I was responding to. Thanks for resonding unprompted in any way to share your take on what people care about, though. Given your inability to comprehend what you're reading, I don't ascribe much value to it.

Not my battle to fight but pretty sure Francis was cutting down to 265 at one point and looks like a literal action figure.. and was also HW champion..so Brock not the only one.

 

[capnlarge]

I feel like he has vastly exceeded expectations. He's a one-dimensional brawler with a gimmick that resonated with some people. (Personally, I think the shoeys are gross)

Lose some fat is the most obvious one. Most likely can increase his speed, would also be good if he can build some muscle.

Most Heavyweights in MMA I feel like are big guys who wouldn't be accepted in any other sports. I have a desk job and dont even work out that much and looks fitter than 90 percent of MMA Heavyweight its embarassing to see lol.

Let's assume Tai Tuivasa has the physique of your average fighter in the UFC. What's he a Middleweight? A Welterweight? He will not get out of the regional circuit in either of these weight classes

 

[jmboyd24]

Tai's best run came when he was living and training in Dubai, away from his usual crew who know nothing other than swanging, banging and boozing. He hasn't won a fight since he went back to his old crew in Sydney.

He cites his son as the reason for being back which you have to respect, but I also can't help but wonder what could've been if he went to an elite gym away from the crew of morbidly obese brawlers that he is with now. He did knock out Gane for a brief moment - it's all been downhill since then

 

[Dr Fong]

Like Mark Hunt before him, he’s an overachiever.

Had one big weapon and it took him a long way

This is real retarded, sir.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

You didn't. "The only heavyweight who ever won a UFC HW championship while actually cutting down to 265 is Brock Lesnar, and he flies in the face of everything you're trying to espouse, because he was a literal action figure."

...yeah. that IS my point, you dolt. The ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT to line up with the action figure image.


"You're idiotically fixated on form. No one cares what Fedor looked like. "
Except the post I was responding to. Thanks for resonding unprompted in any way to share your take on what people care about, though. Given your inability to comprehend what you're reading, I don't ascribe much value to it.

We are in a thread about the athletic potential of Tai Tuivasa and you argue that fighters who win belts are chubby or pudgy. That is objectively incorrect.

You also clearly didn't read the comment you were responding to, or show any comprehension of it, because he was saying that Tai needs to lose weight to gain speed. He at no point indicated that Tai has to look like an action figure to be good. That's a complete strawman on your part. No one expects Tuivasa to be an action figure but if he wants to have a career he does need to be in shape.

Which of these guys did not look huge, muscular, and powerful? Mark Coleman, Maurice Smith, Randy Couture, Bas Rutten, Kevin Randleman, Josh Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, Big Nog, Lesnar, Mir, Shane Carwin, JDS, Cain, Werdum, Stipe, Francis, Gane, Aspinall. All of them do.

You have this ridiculous conflation where you're like "either you're a fat pudge or you're a body builder." Most champion heavyweights are neither. You keep trying to pin everyone you talk to into one camp or the other. You can be extremely muscular and extremely fit while not looking like a bodybuilder or a pudge and that's where most champions fall. Un

Even your tropes argument is really stupid because if you introduced the general populace in person to Tom Aspinall and Jon Jones and said "these are the baddest men in the planet" you'd absolutely be believed. They not only fight the part but they also look the part, as have many champions over the years. It's only your deep seated insecurity that thinks "well if I don't have Triple H muscles then people will think I'm puny."