Leite's Half Guard

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by pagarede1, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. pagarede1

    pagarede1 White Belt

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    Hi guys,
    I've been studying Lucas Leite's game and I was surprised by how he fought stronger and, probably, by looking at his weigh and where he competes, heavier fighters with Half Guard.
    What caught my attention was that Half is a position that lots of people out there, including Mendes Bros, point as a no-to-go position whenever you are fighting bigger people, and Lucas still has a lot of success with it.
    Why do you think is that? I've also read the great breakdown of Gambledub, but I still have no clues of the reason why his game succeeds against bigger people

    For those who are not familiar with his game, here there is really clear video in which he plays this low-deep half guard.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRH8GX6qgmw
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  2. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    A lot of it is how he enters. Leite basically never gets stuck in old school half guard fighting for position, he's almost always either at a distance or deep under working towards the back/sweeping.

    And be careful about people saying 'don't play half guard'. RDLR is a form of half guard, as is Z guard, and pretty much everyone is fine with those. What most top guys shy away from is playing without a form of distance control, whether it's a shin or foot in the hip or being so deep that you've got the passer's balance.
     
  3. MikeOmo

    MikeOmo Blue Belt

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  4. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    Lucas has said before that he doesn't really cut weight because he likes the speed advantage he has. I think it's what Uchi said for the most part, as well as having all of the half guard paths well developed. By that, I mean he has attacks in almost every direction and can capitalize on an opponents defence in one direction by redirecting into an attack in the opposite direction. A lot of the tactics he uses such as the knee torque and controlling more of a quarter guard allow him to manipulate the opponents body and remove a lot of the strength advantage.

    Also, if someone says something is "not good" etc. When that technique/position has worked at a high level consistently, I would ignore it as personal preference. Everyone loves Marcelo, but I don't know how accurate his statements on Kimura's or arm triangles are for example.
     
  5. yetanother

    yetanother Black Belt

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    The Mendes Bros tell their people the Z guard sucks. They show the Leite's sweeps when escaping from side control and the opportunity presents.
     
  6. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I've seen them say old school half sucks, I've never seen them say that about Z. If true, they're demonstrably wrong. In general I think Gamble is correct that you have to take some of these opinions with a grain of salt. Just because a top guy doesn't like a position for whatever reason doesn't mean it's bad if other top guys are winning titles with it.
     
  7. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

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    Liete's game is so highly developed from that position that he has success with it, and, like many have said, his style of half is different than many old school styles so it is easier for him to do his techniques.
     
  8. pagarede1

    pagarede1 White Belt

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    I enrich myself from all of these posts. Thank you all.
    Yep I agree that probably it's a combination of truly mastering the position, speed and some insane wrestling skills. It's still really intresting how he controls nearly all the opp movement while focusing in threating the back-sweep from there. Im amazed.

    I really appreciate the feedback you all have gave me in this question!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  9. yetanother

    yetanother Black Belt

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    Rustam Chisev was giving good a hard time with sub blue belt jiu jitsu, awesome wrestling and being a beast.
    It doesn't mean that's a correct approach.
     
  10. Solidus Snake

    Solidus Snake Purple Belt

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    I love Mendes bros but it's not like everybody can berimbolo with smoothness or playing their kind of outerwordly game. HG doesn't work for them.. great.. it works for a lot of other top guys. Faria won double gold at the last mundials playing like almost always half guard. Leite plays it at high level. I've seen a lot of good hg from Galvao too even if it isn't his go to.

    If they just say it sucks in absolute.. it's their opinion.. for how skilled and knowledgeable they surely are it's not like their word is set in stone or something.
     
  11. ThatBJJGuy

    ThatBJJGuy Brown Belt

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  12. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    The term "half guard" has all but lost its meaning, IMO.

    Maybe we should stop using the term for offensive bottom positions and only use it for the shitty positions where you're flattened out/underhooked with no distance control, and your leg entanglement is just as much a leg turk for the top guy. Let the good positions have other names, like "Leite guard", deep half, RDLR, tornado etc.

    After all, the full/half dichotomy is entirely outdated, and all the new school offensive "half" guards are no less complete or powerful than the so-called "full" guard positions. (Whatever you consider those to be.)

    And it would likely make these discussions superfluous.
     
  13. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    Rustam Chisev has never won shit compared to the Mendes bros. The same can't be said for the many world champs who use Z guard constantly, like Bernardo Faria, Caio Terra, Robson Moura, etc. It's fine if it's not part of their game or something they want to teach, but it's a bad idea to just say 'oh, the Mendes bros (or anyone) said it sucks so it must suck'. They have their ideas, they're obviously very successful and I listen to their opinions, but that doesn't make those opinions fact.
     
  14. Difeco

    Difeco Blue Belt

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    you can play ANY game, as long as you train with a strong team, and train like a professional (and have some talent), you WILL win stuff...

    we have world champs playing closed, half and open (even turtle)...so yeah, whatever what Mendes says
     
  15. Solidus Snake

    Solidus Snake Purple Belt

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    Don't worry, it would not.
     

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