Leg lock/Body Type Question and a Q on Diaz/Pellegrino

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by UrbanSavage**, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. UrbanSavage**

    UrbanSavage** Pepe Silvia

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    1.) I'm an average height but real stocky/short limbed muscular BJJ guy, maybe comparable to Filho but a little taller so naturally I work a lot of half guard and butterfly guard and have a strong top game. I'm just finishing my second year of BJJ and no-gi training and lately, I've been thinking about incorporating a lot more leg locks into my game and I've been thinking about various BJJ guys who are known for their leg locks and they all seem to be taller or at least leaner guys with lankier frames.

    My question is, is their a particular frame suited best to be a leg lock guy? I've been thinking that my shorter legs could actually be an advantage for me as I could make them easier to hide and the other guy's legs will be more exposed than mine will be. The main reason I want to become more leg lock competent is that I don't think someone will be expecting someone with my frame/skillset to be good with leglocks. That could be a completely stupid question but I've just been thinking about it a lot lately.

    2.) My second question is on how you guys think Pellegrino vs Diaz is going to play out. I think Nick was a brown when he submitted Gomi, do you think Nate might be able to submit Kurt? I'm definetely going to be rooting for Nate in this one but a lot of people seem to think that the antidote for Nate and Nick's particular guard game are wrestlers with a strong base and great BJJ defense.

    I know Pellegrino just beat Alberto Crane and was able to fend off all of his sub attacks from Alberto's guard, I just think both the Diaz bros. have better guards for MMA. We all saw how different guards are better suited for MMA when Rani Yahya couldn't submit Chase Beebe in a 5 round fight and Miguel Torres, a brown belt, completely tooled Beebe from his back. I know a few people post here that train with the Diaz's, do you think Nate can sub Kurt, a BJJ black belt with a strong wrestling backround?
     
  2. EE6_TBOIO_MATb

    EE6_TBOIO_MATb Blue Belt

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    I may be wrong, but right now I can't think of a proper body type for leg locks...except for something stupid like an achilles Tendon attacks would hurt more when done from someone having bonier arms, all else being equal. But I guess it's negligible.

    I'm sure the more informed people here will come up with theories on that, though...
     
  3. Deloitte

    Deloitte Blue Belt

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    Good question, well Imanari is considered pretty short for even his weight divison, he's like 5'5. Also Nick gogoplating Gomi doesn't really mean anything, Gomi was so gassed he couldn't even keep his hands up.
     
  4. blink_man182

    blink_man182 Black Belt

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    Interesting topic, I've been wondering too about the Diaz vs Batman fight. Should be interesting to see how it plays out and see who's BJJ has been adapted better to mma
     
  5. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    Okay, Kurt is my instructor so I'm obviously biased. But just by the facts, he was a 4-stripe Renzo brown before he left the academy. His no-gi grappling is incredible, which is pretty damn close to MMA considering he'll likely be on top. He's beaten Mike Fowler (twice), Mark Bocek, Marcus Aurelio, Edson Diniz, Rick Macauley, Bill Cooper, Scott Schilling, Tyrone Glover, Daniel Moraes (Mundials champ), and Marcos Avellan among others. Even looking at it without bias, I say no way.

    I don't understand people saying that Diaz will easily sub Kurt from his guard. People think just because Nate is a Cesar brown he will somehow sub Kurt with ease. Nate does have a great MMA guard, but I think he's gonna have his hands full with Batman.
     
  6. UrbanSavage**

    UrbanSavage** Pepe Silvia

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    Honestly had no idea of all of those wins you mentioned for Pellegrino, that changes my opinion a lot on this fight. I really think this fight will be a war, competitive boxing match with the power edge to Pellegrino and the speed/reach edge to Diaz, then on the ground will be fast paced GnP vs an active guard with many sub attempts. Can't wait for it.
     
  7. bjjholland1980

    bjjholland1980 White Belt

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    I believe that Pellegrino will win. He is vastly more accomplished as a grappler and more experienced in the cage. Nate is very game, though. It would not surprise me to see a close fight. If anyone dominates, though, I believe that it will be Batman.

    Original question:
    Judging from watching the likes of Dean Lister, Masakazu Imanari, Ryan Hall, and others, it is safe to say that there are many different builds that can allow for success with leg attacks.
     
  8. TheMadOne

    TheMadOne Blue Belt

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    Pellegrino is pretty well rounded. His boxing is not bad either. His BJJ is known, and he is a very good wrestler also. I think he will give Nate all kinds of trouble and win the fight.
     
  9. Kimuralex

    Kimuralex Brown Belt

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    off topic but anyone know why pellegrino left renzos/almeida?
     
  10. Cash Bill 52

    Cash Bill 52 Brown Belt

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    It should be a good match. Nathan has a lanky and somewhat unorthodox style. His bjj works so well because his hands connect with accurate punches. When I asked Nathan if he has been training with anyone special to get ready for Kurt he said, "Well, my brother, Jake, and Gilbert."(all teammates)

    That's pretty special.
     
  11. Cash Bill 52

    Cash Bill 52 Brown Belt

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    Whoops ..double post... I'll take this opportunity to answer the question. Any body type can be good at leglocks. I would get good at other things first.
     
  12. pescimove

    pescimove White Belt

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    I forgot how legit Pelligrino was on the ground. That's a who's-who of BJJ stars on that list. Either way it goes this fight is looking like it'll be a good one for the BJJ fans.....maybe enough to erase the memories of the Chieck Kongo fights!!
     
  13. SFinclined

    SFinclined Purple Belt

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    I agree, I think Kurt is gonna take it easily if it is reliant on BJJ.
     
  14. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    Actually it is the other way around.

    I agree with Cash Billthat anyone can get good at them of course.

    But as a general rule (with a lot of exceptions): If you take their leg, they have a chance to go for you leg.

    With a taller guy, he will have a lot more leverage. Just do this next time you are in the gym: Pick the guy with the longest legs and both get a straight foot lock on each other at the same time. Let him put his on first ( in the right spot) and then you will see that your own position to footlock him is not very good.

    But again, of course you can become a wizard at footlocks nonetheless, just if he knows what he is doing as well, it can get you into trouble against taller guys.
     
  15. UrbanSavage**

    UrbanSavage** Pepe Silvia

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    See this point doesn't make sense to me, because what if we do the opposite and I get the footlock on him first? My foot won't be long enough to even reach for him to footlock me.
     
  16. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    If you got it, you got it, but if he can defend, the first thing is him closing to distance + pushing his own foot through. The push through will be very far, so you would have the lock too far from his ankle.

    See, key for a footlock is controlling his body, which is harder to do with shorter legs.... Arrgghh to hard to explain over the nets....

    Just give it a try and report back.

    Also pm Sambosteve, he is the expert here on footlocks.
     
  17. Terere**

    Terere** Purple Belt

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    Toquinho is probably the best leg locker in MMA right now, and his nickname is a mockery to his height, he is short and stalky and his last 3 fights are submissions from ankle locks and toe holds against very good competition in Daniel Acacio + Fabio Negao. He also subbed Romulo Barral in ADCC trials with a ankle lock or toe hold
     

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