Lebron better than Bird? (i.e. rate Lebron's current legacy, v4)

His right foot was his pivot foot but he was taking a fallaway jumper; left foot wasn't taking a step it was falling back on his shot. Not a travel.







CASE CLOSED
 
TotallyHacking said:
To all of the people saying Lebron hasn't faced anyone?

Kevin Love, Aldridge, Griffin, Duncan, Parker, Westbrook, Durant, Melo, George, Dirk, Kobe, The Big Three, Rose and Noah, Dwight, The Beard ,I'm sure I am omitting plenty of others. ) They would have killed it during Bird's Era, and if you say otherwise you're either a blind Bird nut hugger or simply moronic.

Also the PED's accusations are interesting, although entirely unfounded.
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And just like that, you have besmirched yourself on a level not previously attained. Discredited before the eyes of all the hoops experts in one fell swoop.

Slight & Hardcan....

mj-laughing.gif























mj-laughing.gif
 
Palis said:
Lol do you even basketball?
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He's hooped before. There's some footage of the game he played vs Revo and some friends.



Revo with the silky jumper and Faust with the LeRoid drive / soft touch finish.
 
Breakitdown said:



The GOAT EXPOSING the known steroid abuser.

Manufactured Superstar in every sense of the phrase.

Also note the sadistic grin on Riley's face in the thumb of the video. You can tell he already knows what the outcome of the series will be. This is what happens when the friendly/rigged can be summoned at any moment.
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Bigfoot is real too, you better wear some extra tin foil.

Also, calling the heat as Wades team is a joke.

Keep discrediting statistical fact instead use flawed opinions or wild theories, sounds legit.

Also Bird won three rings total, Lebron has plenty more coming his way.
 
TotallyHacking said:
Bigfoot is real too, you better wear some extra tin foil.

Also, calling the heat as Wades team is a joke.

Keep discrediting statistical fact instead use flawed opinions or wild theories, sounds legit.

Also Bird won three rings total, Lebron has plenty more coming his way.
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Going by titles? What a weird metric. I guess Ken Griffen Jr was a shitty baseball player then.
 
cincymma79 said:
Going by titles? What a weird metric. I guess Ken Griffen Jr was a shitty baseball player then.
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I would call you illiterate for bot being able to read, and figure out that's a response to someone.

I'll just assume you're unntelligent.
 
faustian said:
Bern already has the greater career, the only question at this point is peak. Bird had a run of 3 years where he was arguably the best player in the game. Bird's peak was 84-85-86 when he won his 2 FMVPs and 3 MVPs.

Outside of that he was all-star great and even all-NBA great, but not all-time great. All-time greatness is established in the playoffs. Outside of that 3 year peak, Bird's highest playoff PER was 21.8 in '87 and his highest playoff WS/48 was .198 in his second season '81. In total for his career, including his 3 year peak, Bird had two postseasons > 22.0 PER and two postseasons > .200 WS/48.

In 9 career postseasons, Bern has had 9 postseasons > 23.0 PER and 6 postseasons > .200 (as well as seasons at .187 and .198).

Career advantage: Bern

Peak?

Bird top 4 playoff PER:

'84 - 26.3 (FMVP)
'86 - 23.9 (FMVP)
'81 - 21.8
'87 - 21.8​

Bird top 4 playoff WS/48:

'86 - .263 (FMVP)
'84 - .236 (FMVP)
'81 - .198
'85 - .155​

Bern top 4 playoff PER:

'09 - 37.4
'12 - 30.3 (FMVP)
'10 - 28.6
'13 - 28.1 (FMVP)​

Bern top 4 playoff WS/48:

'09 - .399
'12 - .284 (FMVP)
'13 - .260 (FMVP)
'10 - .242​

Bern's peak has been ridiculously higher than Bird's (not to mention Bern plays in an era where defenses are allowed to play 5-on-1 while offensive players aren't allowed to attack defenders in the paint).

24/7 media has us all well-aware of the single sub-par (for him) playoff series of Bern's 11 year career when he put up 17.8 ppg on .478% shooting vs Dallas. How about Bird? Has he ever had a disappointing playoff series to end his team's season?

'82 ECF loss to Sixers -- 18.3 ppg on .412%
'83 ESF loss to Bucks -- 18.7 ppg on .441%
'87 Finals loss to Lakes -- 24.2 ppg on .445%
'88 ECF loss to Pistons -- 19.8 ppg on .351%

If you aren't a fan of numbers because you hate science, simply youtube some espn classic Boston Celtics games from the 80s and actually watch Bird play. He was a streak shooter who relied on mismatches to get easy buckets down low (Bird was a PF playing SF -- McHale guarded opposing SFs while Bird was typically guarded by opposing SFs). Bird was a great player, obviously, but as a man of science and a high-level expert historian of the game, I just can't include Bird in the highest tier of all-time greats.

Tier 1
Jordan, Kareem, Bern, Wilt, Magic

Tier 2
Duncan, Shaq, Bird, Russell, Olajuwon
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You know my thoughts on bern and bird, and i actually agree with the vast majority of what you said in this novella of a post. The bolded, however, is just flat out wrong. His finals loss to Dallas was amazing gameplay compared to his loss in 07 in the Finals to the Spurs. I understand how horrible that team was, and how legit the Spurs D was, but Lebron's offensive stats: 22 pts on 35.6% FG shooting, 20% from 3!, and a disgusting 69% from FT. You routinely hate on carmelo and kobe for having low to mid 40s FG%, but 35.6??? and a horrendous 20% from 3? He did at least have solid rebounding and assist numbers in that series, but that has to be the worst Finals efficiency of any star player, ever.

And he got 'LeBroomed' as Breakitdown coined.
 
Bern was 22 years old and the Spurs were allowed to play 5 on 1 against him

22 ppg on .356% as a 22yo on a one-man team is still superior to Bird's 19.8 on .351% as a 31yo multiple-time MVP winner vs Detroit in '88
 
Just saw this:

HunterSdVa29 said:
He did at least have solid rebounding and assist numbers in that series, but that has to be the worst Finals efficiency of any star player, ever.
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Take your pick:

25yo Kooby playing with Shaq in '04 -- 22.6 ppg on .381 fg% and .174 3p%

21yo Kooby playing with Shaq in '00 -- 15.6 ppg on .367 fg% and .200 3p%

prime 29yo Kooby playing with Pua in '08 -- 25.7 ppg on .405 fg%

prime 31yo Kooby playing with Pua in '10 -- 28.6 ppg on .405 fg%


Honestly this is the first I've realized that Kooby has actually shot below .406% in 4 of his 6 Finals appearances. Granted, Bern did have a single inefficient series as a 22yo playing 1 on 5 vs one of the greatest team defenses in NBA history, but Kooby's sustained career inefficiency takes the cake for me in regards to worst Finals efficiency for a star player.
 
Statistical data doesn't mean anything! Stop diluting the conversation with fact.

I agree with you entirely, he also shoots over 50% now.
 
faustian said:
Just saw this:




Take your pick:

25yo Kooby playing with Shaq in '04 -- 22.6 ppg on .381 fg% and .174 3p%

21yo Kooby playing with Shaq in '00 -- 15.6 ppg on .367 fg% and .200 3p%

prime 29yo Kooby playing with Pua in '08 -- 25.7 ppg on .405 fg%

prime 31yo Kooby playing with Pua in '10 -- 28.6 ppg on .405 fg%


Honestly this is the first I've realized that Kooby has actually shot below .406% in 4 of his 6 Finals appearances. Granted, Bern did have a single inefficient series as a 22yo playing 1 on 5 vs one of the greatest team defenses in NBA history, but Kooby's sustained career inefficiency takes the cake for me in regards to worst Finals efficiency for a star player.
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Don't forget the time the known steroid user SINGLE HANDILY cost G.H. Wade and Co. the ring vs the Mavs. Probably the SINGLE GREATEST chokejob from a "superstar*" player in NBA history. The stat drop off was monumental compared to his regular season production.

Can you say CHOKE LMAOOOO.
 
Cry all you want ,Bird is far better. No one is scared to play lebron , where everyone was crapping thier pants against Bird. Durant and Griffin are better then Lebron..
 
Howsitfeel said:
Cry all you want ,Bird is far better. No one is scared to play lebron , where everyone was crapping thier pants against Bird. Durant and Griffin are better then Lebron..
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Griffin has more heart but he's not better all around
 
At no point when Bird played was he the top player in the league, you could argue he was never one of the top three players. Lebron has been the best for quite some time.
 
TotallyHacking said:
At no point when Bird played was he the top player in the league, you could argue he was never one of the top three players. Lebron has been the best for quite some time.
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84-88 Larry highly disagrees with you.
 
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