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Lebron better than Bird? (i.e. rate Lebron's current legacy, v4)

white-pony said:
Pippen was a better overall player than Bern and Bird destroyed Pippen.



Bird > Pippen > Bern
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I wouldn't say Pippen was better than Bern overall, but nobody can argue that Pippen was a better defender. Pippen at that time was arguably the best defender in the league, or at least top 3. Bern's never been that.
 
ESPN doesn't know sports they only watch 5 minutes of highlights and give there opinion. Sports and it's greats are those that took on the best, stats are just that stats. In the end who you competed against is how great you are.
 
5H3RD0G said:
ESPN doesn't know sports they only watch 5 minutes of highlights and give there opinion. Sports and it's greats are those that took on the best, stats are just that stats. In the end who you competed against is how great you are.
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I agree with this.

Bird had to play Dominique Wilkins, Dr. J, James Worthy, Scottie Pippen, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Bernard King, George Gervin, David Thompson, Bernard King, Marques Johnson, and Kiki Vandeweghe.

Lebron has to play Carmelo, Durant, Paul George, Paul Pierce, and... maybe 1 or 2 guys I'm forgetting, but who else is significant enough to go on this list that would even compare to the list of killers in Bird's list?
 
Bluntforce420 said:
In time LeBron will be the GOAT

LOL at all the people who say the game isnt as physical as it once was. Of course its not, but Lebron is the most physically gifted athlete ive ever seen. He would dominate any era
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PEDs truly are a gift.
 
cincymma79 said:
They just discussed this on espn.

This is crazy. He passed bird on All time scoring but bird was injured for the last few seasons of play. Played 6 games one season, 60 another , and 40 is his last. Imagine if bird had played 20 seasons like mj and some others. Are people forgetting how good the greats were? My god the guy averaged 10 rebounds per game as a sf. Other than that their stats are very close. Blocks, steals, assists, etc... all very close.

LeBron is very good but he's not even the best player in his position today and the game isn't as physical (or fun for that matter) and the teams aren't as good.

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who the fucks better and dont you dare say Durant
 
Bird by crystal clear edge in talent, skill and IQ.
 
Don't smoke the bong water.

Lebron destroys Bird in every facet aside from shooting. Must be a joke whoever said Lebron doesn't play elite defense.

Lebron will also surpass Jordan, get used to it.
 
TotallyHacking said:
Don't smoke the bong water.

Lebron destroys Bird in every facet aside from shooting. Must be a joke whoever said Lebron doesn't play elite defense.

Lebron will also surpass Jordan, get used to it.
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If being outside the top 125 in iso-defense is "elite" in your book, then I guess he plays "elite" defense.

LMAOOOO
 
Oh snap, he carries an entire offense on his back not to mention is the best post defender on his team. Why are you even talking about regular season?

By the end Lebron will have the hardware. Elite rim protector, not to mention in isolation situations.

Look at analytical data on opponent shooting % when against him, and then look at birds then talk to me.

The Celtics would hide Bird on defense, and Jordan was fortunate to have Pippen doing the heavy lifting on defense.
 
Fedorgasm said:
I agree with this.

Bird had to play Dominique Wilkins, Dr. J, James Worthy, Scottie Pippen, Alex English, Adrian Dantley, Bernard King, George Gervin, David Thompson, Bernard King, Marques Johnson, and Kiki Vandeweghe.

Lebron has to play Carmelo, Durant, Paul George, Paul Pierce, and... maybe 1 or 2 guys I'm forgetting, but who else is significant enough to go on this list that would even compare to the list of killers in Bird's list?
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List padding.
 
Breakitdown said:
Durant is better on offense and defense. He also doesn't need a boost via PEDs like Juice does.
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Tremendous post.
giphy.gif

Have a look at Bern Jones checking his roid levels.

The only reason LePharm will end up with more hardware than Durcant is because Durcant plays in a conference with a higher level of competition making the road to the Finals that much more harder to reach. Put Durcant & OKC in the Least and they'd cruise (consecutive 65+ win seasons in the Least book that) over Juice & the cHeat.
 
Bern already has the greater career, the only question at this point is peak. Bird had a run of 3 years where he was arguably the best player in the game. Bird's peak was 84-85-86 when he won his 2 FMVPs and 3 MVPs.

Outside of that he was all-star great and even all-NBA great, but not all-time great. All-time greatness is established in the playoffs. Outside of that 3 year peak, Bird's highest playoff PER was 21.8 in '87 and his highest playoff WS/48 was .198 in his second season '81. In total for his career, including his 3 year peak, Bird had two postseasons > 22.0 PER and two postseasons > .200 WS/48.

In 9 career postseasons, Bern has had 9 postseasons > 23.0 PER and 6 postseasons > .200 (as well as seasons at .187 and .198).

Career advantage: Bern

Peak?

Bird top 4 playoff PER:

'84 - 26.3 (FMVP)
'86 - 23.9 (FMVP)
'81 - 21.8
'87 - 21.8​

Bird top 4 playoff WS/48:

'86 - .263 (FMVP)
'84 - .236 (FMVP)
'81 - .198
'85 - .155​

Bern top 4 playoff PER:

'09 - 37.4
'12 - 30.3 (FMVP)
'10 - 28.6
'13 - 28.1 (FMVP)​

Bern top 4 playoff WS/48:

'09 - .399
'12 - .284 (FMVP)
'13 - .260 (FMVP)
'10 - .242​

Bern's peak has been ridiculously higher than Bird's (not to mention Bern plays in an era where defenses are allowed to play 5-on-1 while offensive players aren't allowed to attack defenders in the paint).

24/7 media has us all well-aware of the single sub-par (for him) playoff series of Bern's 11 year career when he put up 17.8 ppg on .478% shooting vs Dallas. How about Bird? Has he ever had a disappointing playoff series to end his team's season?

'82 ECF loss to Sixers -- 18.3 ppg on .412%
'83 ESF loss to Bucks -- 18.7 ppg on .441%
'87 Finals loss to Lakes -- 24.2 ppg on .445%
'88 ECF loss to Pistons -- 19.8 ppg on .351%

If you aren't a fan of numbers because you hate science, simply youtube some espn classic Boston Celtics games from the 80s and actually watch Bird play. He was a streak shooter who relied on mismatches to get easy buckets down low (Bird was a PF playing SF -- McHale guarded opposing SFs while Bird was typically guarded by opposing SFs). Bird was a great player, obviously, but as a man of science and a high-level expert historian of the game, I just can't include Bird in the highest tier of all-time greats.

Tier 1
Jordan, Kareem, Bern, Wilt, Magic

Tier 2
Duncan, Shaq, Bird, Russell, Olajuwon
 
Shooting: Bird
Penetration: Lebron
Post-play: even
Ballhandling: even
Ball distribution: Bird
Rebounding: Bird
Defense:Bird
Basketball IQ: Bird
Toughness: Bird
Leadership Ability: Bird
Competition: Bird
Athleticism: Lebron

While objectively they might appear quite similar, anyone who doesn't have a bias or is largely ignorant of the game, can see that Bird was the better player, both relative to his era and in absolute terms. Bird was a tougher and better overall leader, in a more competitive era. On the flip side, Lebron is significantly more athletic, whereas skill is more-or-less a wash. TBH, if Lebron had the toughness and leadership abilities of Bird (or Magic, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, etc. for that matter), he might have been the GOAT. Maybe...
 
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gspieler said:
Shooting: Bird
Penetration: Lebron
Post-play: even
Ballhandling: even
Ball distribution: Bird
Rebounding: Bird
Defense:Bird
Basketball IQ: Bird
Toughness: Bird
Leadership Ability: Bird
Competition: Bird
Athleticism: Lebron

While objectively they might appear quite similar, anyone who doesn't have a bias or is largely ignorant of the game, can see that Bird was the better player, both relative to his era and in absolute terms. Bird was a tougher and better overall leader, in a more competitive era. On the flip side, Lebron is significantly more athletic, whereas skill is more-or-less a wash. TBH, if Lebron had the toughness and leadership abilities of Bird (or Magic, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, etc. for that matter), he might have been the GOAT. Maybe...
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Penetration: Lebron
Post-play: even
Ballhandling: even
Ball distribution: Lebron
Rebounding: Even
Defense: Lebron
Basketball IQ: Even
Toughness: Bird
Leadership Ability: Even
Competition: Even
Athleticism: Lebron
Outside Shooting: Bird

You're a joke. Lebron is a better defender in every facet, exterior and interior rim protection. You're delusional to try and attempt to say Lebron is a lesser rebounder or that his post-play is lesser. Bird only succeeded in the post against small forwards or mismatches, and it was easy pulling down boards with a dominant center on the roster usually drawing the box out.

Bird was on a stacked team, Lebron is on a great team as well, he's already won 2 championships and likely will get his third this year. Leadership and Basketball IQ are both relatively even, especially considering the Heat run through Lebron.

To all of the people saying Lebron hasn't faced anyone?

Kevin Love, Aldridge, Griffin, Duncan, Parker, Westbrook, Durant, Melo, George, Dirk, Kobe, The Big Three, Rose and Noah, Dwight, The Beard, ( I'm sure I am omitting plenty of others. ) They would have killed it during Bird's Era, and if you say otherwise you're either a blind Bird nut hugger or simply moronic.

Also the PED's accusations are interesting, although entirely unfounded.
 
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