Leaving Neverland...

[Nameless Ghoul]

I'm watching this now, and I'm about 45 minutes into it. Best case scenario so far and the mom is 100% telling the truth as she knows it...what a dumb bitch.(edit: of the American dancing kid)

 

[Phlog]

He was a beautiful man with a great messege.

Wade said he was circumcised, which he wasn't.

I believe Cory Feldman.

I think people now are ignorant if the political power he could wield. philia was an easy slur to attach to him so as to kill his influence.

 

[TuBB]

Use some fucking common sense. What adult in there right mind would want to spend that much time around snot nosed kids? His father created an amazing entertainment family but in the process damaged MJ's mind beyond recognition. The cycle of abuse then continued. Hollyweird in a nutshell.

 

[minute bull]

I would imagine their justice would be a general acknowledgement from the masses that it actually happened, rather than the two split up crowds of supporters and deniers.

Mission pretty much accomplished! The divide is not so woeful. Each side is easily written off by the other, and the more people expose themselves to the documentary the worse their experience of MJ will be. That's too bad for them, but at the same time it kind of isn't since MJ's day is done.

I think presently it's the best realistic outcome for everyone involved. Heavy emphasis on "realistic." Right now without proof one way or another, MJ becomes a "Schrodinger's Molester" who both is and isn't. We can argue forever (or until more information is brought to light), thereby satisfying both sides by allowing each to express their beliefs -- strenuously, competitively, and morally. Defenders galvanize themselves, Attackers feel better about themselves because they're not as stupid or perverted as the "others." It's win-win. It's the very epitome of the word "moot."

The best thing, for anti-MJ (or "anti-phile," if you want to get nasty) folks, is that MJ no longer sees any profit, while at the same time his cultural watermark is diminished -- plus he is no longer actually victimizing people. It's inaccurate to think these men are still being victimized when we really mean they've been traumatized. (ALLEGEDLY.) But we can certainly say MJ is no longer a threat.

The threat is consensus reality, where our perceptions are no longer governed by due diligence and intellectual rigor. We rather suborn ourselves with our own biases.

I find too many holes in their stories and I like to leave the burden of proof on those who make claims. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Bob Sapp]

Yeah, that's messed up too. Culkin claims nothing ever happened with him, but I don't buy it.

Maybe Culkin is already rich. He has money

 

[Cygnus A]

The stories were way more convincing than I expected. I mean.. how you going to make something up like getting your butthole liked while watching Peter Pan?

 

[HereticBD]

I guess now only MJ and those kids really know what happened.
However, an adult sleeping with someone else's child is strange as it gets.

It's funny, because Jackson is like the only adult on Earth(well, when he was alive) that anyone would lend that kind of excuse to. On one hand, he could be a very obvious child molester. On the other hand, it's totally possible that he had the brain of an eight year old, and just liked having sleepovers with kids. If any other male adult was having sleepovers with kids, the red flag would immediately go up. With Jackson, he was just such a child like imbecile, that you give him the initial benefit of the doubt that he's just hanging out with them.

To this day, I still don't know what to believe. I do tend to lean a bit to the side that believes Jackson didn't really have a sexual bone(*rimshot*) in his body, and probably just liked hanging out with children because he shared their mindset. Micheal Jackson hanging out at some cocktail party with adults, almost seems more out of place.

 

[Bob Sapp]

It's funny, because Jackson is like the only adult on Earth(well, when he was alive) that anyone would lend that kind of excuse to. On one hand, he could be a very obvious child molester. On the other hand, it's totally possible that he had the brain of an eight year old, and just liked having sleepovers with kids. If any other male adult was having sleepovers with kids, the red flag would immediately go up. With Jackson, he was just such a child like imbecile, that you give him the initial benefit of the doubt that he's just hanging out with them.

To this day, I still don't know what to believe. I do tend to lean a bit to the side that believes Jackson didn't really have a sexual bone(*rimshot*) in his body, and probably just liked hanging out with children because he shared their mindset. Micheal Jackson hanging out at some cocktail party with adults, almost seems more out of place.

I just cant imagine MJ hangin out at clubs and parties like that. The dude had a mental illness.

 

[DeJulez]

Those guys are full of shit

Not Guilty

 

[DeJulez]

so you get drunk, wake up next to a 14 yr old

Yes, from the ages of 14 to 17.

And then again at 26.

 

[DeJulez]

I’m sure if all these kids were sexually abused, maybe they could have described MJ’s penis to a sketch artist. Police could search and seize evidence. Boys could have medical exams. They could gather statements from witnesses. Plenty of ways to collect evidence. Should be easy to build a case against him with all the accusations over the years. I’m guessing he didn’t get charged tho because prosecutors lacked evidence to make a case against him.

The 1993 accuser described MJs penis and said and described a circumcised penis.
MJ was uncircumcised.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Its winding me up how a lot of people are acting mortified and shocked by this. One of my mates texted me "its grim but at least it settles that argument once and for all".

What argument? I knew aged 16 this bloke was a bona fide nonce. Any non-famous man who had a fucking ranch at which he held sleepovers with fucking children would be immediately hauled into a police station and possibly fucking sectioned.

 

[HereticBD]

Those guys are full of shit

Not Guilty

Yeah, I don't really know, but there is something ugly about letting these people tell all these wild tales about a dead man who can't defend himself anymore. Didn't they go to trial to get to the bottom of this? Didn't one of these guys say Jackson didn't molest him under oath, and has now changed his story to Jackson fucking him in damn near every room on the ranch? Seems kind of shady.

Then again, Jackson settled out of court with another kid, so there is room for opening up on details we never heard.

 

[orgazmo]

It's funny, because Jackson is like the only adult on Earth(well, when he was alive) that anyone would lend that kind of excuse to. On one hand, he could be a very obvious child molester. On the other hand, it's totally possible that he had the brain of an eight year old, and just liked having sleepovers with kids. If any other male adult was having sleepovers with kids, the red flag would immediately go up. With Jackson, he was just such a child like imbecile, that you give him the initial benefit of the doubt that he's just hanging out with them.

To this day, I still don't know what to believe. I do tend to lean a bit to the side that believes Jackson didn't really have a sexual bone(*rimshot*) in his body, and probably just liked hanging out with children because he shared their mindset. Micheal Jackson hanging out at some cocktail party with adults, almost seems more out of place.

The police seized an awful lot of pornography from a man who allegedly doesn't have a sexual bone in his body, seems like quite a stretch (similar to those children's assholes I would imagine)

 

[HereticBD]

The police seized an awful lot of pornography from a man who allegedly doesn't have a sexual bone in his body, seems like quite a stretch (similar to those children's assholes I would imagine)

Did they though, or was that just a rumor? I remember a report came out that alleged he had everything under the sun, from porn to animal torture mags, that was contradicted by other reports. I also heard that the "porn" he had, was actually a famous photographers work that happened to feature topless boys in the summertime.

I don't know what to believe, TBH. The guy was such a weirdo that you say damn near anything about him, and it would automatically be lent some level of credibility simply because he was so fucking strange.

 

[orgazmo]

Did they though, or was that just a rumor? I remember a report came out that alleged he had everything under the sun, from porn to animal torture mags, that was contradicted by other reports. I also heard that the "porn" he had, was actually a famous photographers work that happened to feature topless boys in the summertime.

I don't know what to believe, TBH. The guy was such a weirdo that you say damn near anything about him, and it would automatically be lent some level of credibility simply because he was so fucking strange.

They found some stuff

So that document looks pretty legit in the link quoted

 

[JSN]

Would have been funny if his autocorrect said most of his memories of MJ were fondle.

Feldman is a whack job but I dunno why I believe he wasn't molested by MJ.

What’s crazy is he says he was diddled by big celebrities but not MJ.

Who knows, maybe it’s true and extremely ironic. Maybe MJ avoiding molesting hugely famous kids like him and Culkin for fear of the spotlight.

All I know is the parents who let their kids hang around MJ unsupervised should be beaten about the head and neck with a claw hammer.

 

[DeJulez]

None of what you say here disputes any of the 10 facts in the article, though.

1. There is no dispute that, at age 34, Michael Jackson slept more than 30 nights in a row in the same bed with 13-year-old Jordie Chandler at the boy’s house with Chandler’s mother present. He also slept in the same bed with Jordie Chandler at Chandler’s father’s house. The parents were divorced.

2. So far, five boys Michael Jackson shared beds with have accused him of abuse: Jordie Chandler, Jason Francia, Gavin Arvizo, Wade Robson, and Jimmy Safechuck. Jackson had the same nickname for Chandler and Arvizo: “Rubba.” He called Robson “Little One” and Safechuck “Applehead.”

3. Jackson paid $25 million to settle the Chandlers’ lawsuit, with $18 million going to Jordie, $2.5 million to each of the parents, and the rest to lawyers. Jackson said he paid that sum to avoid something “long and drawn out.” Francia also received $2.4 million from Jackson.

4. Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

5. The hallway leading to Jackson’s bedroom was a serious security zone covered by video and wired for sound so that the steps of anyone approaching would make ding-dong sounds.

6. Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages. Jackson also had bondage sculptures of women with ball gags in their mouths on his desk, in full view of the boys who slept there.

7. According to the Neverland staff interviewed by the Santa Barbara authorities, no one ever saw or knew of a woman spending the night with Michael Jackson, including his two spouses, Debbie Rowe or Lisa Marie Presley. Rowe, the mother of two of Jackson’s children, made it clear to the Santa Barbara authorities that she never had sex with Jackson.

8. The parents of boys Jackson shared beds with were courted assiduously and given myriad expensive gifts. Wade Robson’s mother testified in the 2005 trial that she funneled wages through Jackson’s company and was given a permanent resident visa. Jimmy Safechuck’s parents got a house. Jordie Chandler’s mother got a diamond bracelet.

9. Two of the fathers of those who have accused Jackson, Jordie Chandler and Wade Robson, committed suicide. Both were estranged from their sons at the time.

10. In a 2002 documentary, Living with Michael Jackson, Jackson told Martin Bashir there was nothing wrong with sharing his bed with boys.

From this article
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations/amp

Alot of those arent facts.
For one his name is Jordan Chandler not Jordie Chandler.
Also Jordan described a penis that was circumcised, while MJ was not circumcised.
Reports to Reuters and USA Today said that Jordan did not match up MJs penis at all and previously said that MJ only showed him blotches on his skin by pulling up his shirt and showing him.
Evan Chandler, was recorded on tape talking about exploiting MJ before any Sexual Molestation charge was ever brought up.
Evan Chandler was also $68,000 behind in child support statements and wanted MJ to buy or build an add on to his house at the time.

Jordan denied any molestation ever occurred until Evan gave him a sedative he called a "truth serum", and that under sedation is when Jordan told him about being molested.

No photos of naked boys were found at Jackson's residence.
Thousand upon thousand books were found with a few being art books and collections that feature some young people that are naked in drawing. The books are from the 1800s I think maybe a litte later.

Evan Chandler killed himself a few months after MJ died.
He was estranged from his son after they got into a fight a few years prior and barely saw each other after the molestation accusations.

The security of his hallway isn't true. He had panic buttons all over his house and his kids would sometimes hit them on accident sending his security in a mess.
He did have video and certain security installed in his house which is normal for almost all stars of his caliber.

 

[DeJulez]

Yeah, I don't really know, but there is something ugly about letting these people tell all these wild tales about a dead man who can't defend himself anymore. Didn't they go to trial to get to the bottom of this? Didn't one of these guys say Jackson didn't molest him under oath, and has now changed his story to Jackson fucking him in damn near every room on the ranch? Seems kind of shady.

Then again, Jackson settled out of court with another kid, so there is room for opening up on details we never heard.

Well he settled based on Johnnie Cochrans suggestion. Cochran said he was so drugged up and hurt that he didnt think he'd live through the trial.
They also thought if they paid it, the shit would go away and he'd continue with his career.
The case wouldve been dismissed anyway apparently since there was nothing to go on and the kids descriptions weren't adding up.

 

[lukeuidswords]

No photos of naked boys were found at Jackson's residence.

This is not true

They found some stuff