Lead Uppercut - Cross Combo

[apizur**]

should

but often doesn't.

 

[SummerStriker]

I'm glad I touched a nerve with this thread. The trade has already given me a better uppercut. Thanks gents.

 

[apizur**]

Here's me, right around 2:03, slipping one in on a half thrown right hand. I never realized I did a hop step, but my weight is forward none the less.... but not spilled over my front foot. The right hand comes around nicely.



If anyone followed my "bouncing" thread you can really see it here.

 

[ssullivan80]

Can you elaborate more on why moving the weight more on the back foot makes the cross more power? When you throw a cross, you ideally want weight to be moving to your front foot. Pulling away but firing off a straight is going to kill its power.

If I want to fire a cross after an uppercut but my weight is on my front foot, I'm not going to move the weight away from my front foot, I'm just going to throw my hip into the cross.



I get that angles happen naturally, but they're a lot more important when fighting against a Southpaw because your lead legs are so damn close.
This is an example of Orthodox v Southpaw:

When fighting against someone in a mirrored stance, you can't just line up with your opponent and throw an uppercut unless you fucking really reach with it (ala Naseem) because you are either going to step on his foot or smash your knees together. The southpaw in the picture on the outside, the orthodox fighter is on the inside. The Orthodox fighter, while on the inside, has a clear path for a good-ol, good-fearing, windup lead uppercut, but for lower level fighters (ie most people who post on Sherdog) it's not a good position to be in because you're in line with the Southpaw's left hand and he is to the outside of your power hand.
So, the southpaw is technically in a better position, but it takes a bit more positional work to actually throw the uppercut--- you either need to be on a slight slant, or slightly put a hooking motion into the uppercut. It's much easier to do either of those by setting the punch up with other punches instead of leading with it.
I'm overcomplicated this again, I just wanted to know if TS was inside or outside so it made more sense to me.

Strangely enough, I think I understand what Babba is eluding too. Against a SP I regularly throw my lead UC from that same position the pic you show above of the orth fighter........ and I intentionally don't shift my weight back onto my front foot for the cross, I fire it from my hip and keep back on my rear foot as that is what keeps me out of range of the SP's cross. It's a technique I use consistently and effectively. That said, It's probably not considered technically "sound", but it works and it works against guys who are experienced. See clip below, only one i could find and I put it in slo mo........ maybe that helps. The cross doesn't have alot of power off that rear foot, but it has enough to get my opponents attention. Not necessarily a fundamentally correct execution of the lead uc cross....... But it works......



or as a counter to the sp body cross, again my front foot inside his..... not necessarily fundamentally sound. But I like the lead UC against a SP.

 

[SummerStriker]

Just listen to this guy :

The way he shows the incorrect uppercut at 40 seconds is basically what I learned and how I was trying to describe it in the opening thread, minus differences in stance and so on and on.

I'm glad the error is so common that Sinister already solved it in a video a long time ago

 

[Babba]

Here's me, right around 2:03, slipping one in on a half thrown right hand. I never realized I did a hop step, but my weight is forward none the less.... but not spilled over my front foot. The right hand comes around nicely.



If anyone followed my "bouncing" thread you can really see it here.

haha good one

what weight n height are u? that poor little guy had nothing to do in there with you.. he was scared to commit

 

[Discipulus]

Here's me, right around 2:03, slipping one in on a half thrown right hand. I never realized I did a hop step, but my weight is forward none the less.... but not spilled over my front foot. The right hand comes around nicely.



If anyone followed my "bouncing" thread you can really see it here.

Now that's a well-timed uppercut.

 

[ssullivan80]

Can you elaborate more on why moving the weight more on the back foot makes the cross more power? When you throw a cross, you ideally want weight to be moving to your front foot. Pulling away but firing off a straight is going to kill its power.

If I want to fire a cross after an uppercut but my weight is on my front foot, I'm not going to move the weight away from my front foot, I'm just going to throw my hip into the cross.



I get that angles happen naturally, but they're a lot more important when fighting against a Southpaw because your lead legs are so damn close.
This is an example of Orthodox v Southpaw:

When fighting against someone in a mirrored stance, you can't just line up with your opponent and throw an uppercut unless you fucking really reach with it (ala Naseem) because you are either going to step on his foot or smash your knees together. The southpaw in the picture on the outside, the orthodox fighter is on the inside. The Orthodox fighter, while on the inside, has a clear path for a good-ol, good-fearing, windup lead uppercut, but for lower level fighters (ie most people who post on Sherdog) it's not a good position to be in because you're in line with the Southpaw's left hand and he is to the outside of your power hand.
So, the southpaw is technically in a better position, but it takes a bit more positional work to actually throw the uppercut--- you either need to be on a slight slant, or slightly put a hooking motion into the uppercut. It's much easier to do either of those by setting the punch up with other punches instead of leading with it.
I'm overcomplicated this again, I just wanted to know if TS was inside or outside so it made more sense to me.

Strangely enough, I think I understand what Babba is eluding too. Against a SP I regularly throw my lead UC from that same position the pic you show above of the orth fighter........ and I intentionally don't shift my weight back onto my front foot for the cross, I fire it from my hip and keep back on my rear foot as that is what keeps me out of range of the SP's cross. It's a technique I use consistently and effectively. That said, It's probably not considered technically "sound", but it works and it works against guys who are experienced. See clip below, only one i could find and I put it in slo mo........ maybe that helps. The cross doesn't have alot of power off that rear foot, but it has enough to get my opponents attention. Not necessarily a fundamentally correct execution of the lead uc cross....... But it works......



Or here, as a counter to the cross.

 

[Babba]

Strangely enough, I think I understand what Babba is eluding too. Against a SP I regularly throw my lead UC from that same position the pic you show above of the orth fighter........ and I intentionally don't shift my weight back onto my front foot for the cross, I fire it from my hip and keep back on my rear foot as that is what keeps me out of range of the SP's cross. It's a technique I use consistently and effectively. That said, It's probably not considered technically "sound", but it works and it works against guys who are experienced. See clip below, only one i could find and I put it in slo mo........ maybe that helps. The cross doesn't have alot of power off that rear foot, but it has enough to get my opponents attention. Not necessarily a fundamentally correct execution of the lead uc cross....... But it works......



or as a counter to the sp body cross, again my front foot inside his..... not necessarily fundamentally sound. But I like the lead UC against a SP.

Yeah man thats boxing, fundamentals is on ething, but when im trying to win in sparring or when i competed, i just try to see the opening and use my brain creatively.. so if u have something thats learned in one way, u can see what works for u and apply that concept a bit differently if u know the risk/reward u can make it work -in that specific situation- the split second.. a little badly explained but u know what i mean.

and, like u did up there, u pull far back, because u already process he comes with a straight right, so u effectively did ur attack, then u pull back and u can reset do new attack. but now his mind is on ur uppercut, and maybe a hook u did earlier - so u have him worried. so if u did it fundamental he could have hit u / ur guard with a right, but u pulle dback.. thats ur creativity to that specific situation.

but anyway what i mean with pulling back, this is my look right after the uppercut, ready to shoot the straight left:

 

[apizur**]

haha good one

what weight n height are u? that poor little guy had nothing to do in there with you.. he was scared to commit

5'11", 180cm... idk how you measure. At 175 at the time, or about 80kg.
He let me get away with a lot.

 

[apizur**]

The way he shows the incorrect uppercut at 40 seconds is basically what I learned and how I was trying to describe it in the opening thread, minus differences in stance and so on and on.

I'm glad the error is so common that Sinister already solved it in a video a long time ago

That's one solution, which is what Babba and I are trying to say.

 

[apizur**]

There's a HUGE factor in this: You've used your feet to step around to the square side of your opponent. You've gotten out front of what should be his defending shoulder. Very subtle, and very smart.
Danger must be your middle name, circling into your opponent's power like that

 

[ssullivan80]

There's a HUGE factor in this: You've used your feet to step around to the square side of your opponent. You've gotten out front of what should be his defending shoulder. Very subtle, and very smart.
Danger must be your middle name, circling into your opponent's power like that

I think a lot of that has to do with stylistic differences between boxing vs KB. So thanks for calling it "subtle and smart", but in all honesty it's really a "convenient accident" that for some odd reason always works for me. Given the contributing factor of a kick, when my opponent (the SP's particularly) see me come up on my toes, get narrow and lean away (throwing that lead uc) they are expecting my rear leg kick to come behind that UC, as all I need do is turn over my right hip and whip my shin into their rear leg or gut. This gives them that split second hesitation to really step into that left cross or to dig into a right lead hook (in which case id be in trouble), so they end up getting light on their toes and just stalling...... hence why they eat that right hand. It's certainly "non conventional" and every boxing coach i've worked with always gives me shit about the way i use that lead UC against SP's, but they can't argue when it works..... and I've found it almost as effective against SP boxers as kickboxers. Sure, against really experienced guys (who recognize or pick up on it) it has got me into trouble. But the same can be said for shots I use that are technically correct as well.

Personally, against sp's that like to come forward. I prefer circling into their left (power side) and working off my back foot. It helps that I am long reaching, but I find by doing that I can get them reaching and I use that long slapping hook to "stall them" and then a short lateral step and they are squared up in front of me and I find my right hand with relative ease. I.E: as in below...... not conventional, not necessarily pretty, probably not smart, but shit works........... That slapping left hook seems to be the catalyst, it gives them trouble in finding the right range/distance (hence vids below, shots come up short, they lean)....... hmmmm.

 

[Jukai]

Thanks for responses guys, lemme get back at ya...

The uppercut should put the weight onto the rear foot and then the weight can transfer again for the cross. Why are we all imagining that the weight stays in place for the uppercut?

He's not saying this and not per se. The hip rotation creates the power, the leaning action doesn't. Sin writes a lot on this. The POWER comes from your rear foot. You transfer your weight onto your front foot, but not to the degree most people imagine. If you can maintain from shoving your weight off of your rear foot you'll get a much more balanced and powerful rear hand. I'll attest to that and so will my observing coaches.

So back to what I said, as long as you leave some room for your rear leg to straighten out enough to get your hips around, you'll have both power and balance. You're not supposed to throw your weight forward in the first place, so doing it twice is lamesauce.

This doesn't seem like what the TS said. He said:
"To get my head offline and to the outside while I'm throwing the lead uppercut, I end up putting my weight on my front leg. Then, I throw the cross as my weight shifts back into position - stronger uppercut, weaker cross"

So he is saying the weight goes onto his front leg for his uppercut--- but then he is pulling weight back to his rear leg to get back into starting position. You guys are saying that you shift onto the back leg for a split second and then put the weight forward, but I don't think Summer was describing that. I understand that after the lead uppercut is thrown, you have a slight milisecond shift where weight transfers back as you begin to torque your body, but I don't see him saying he does that. It sounds like he is throwing out a cross as he is putting weight on his back foot.

TS, care to give your thoughts on this one?

Strangely enough, I think I understand what Babba is eluding too. Against a SP I regularly throw my lead UC from that same position the pic you show above of the orth fighter........ and I intentionally don't shift my weight back onto my front foot for the cross, I fire it from my hip and keep back on my rear foot as that is what keeps me out of range of the SP's cross. It's a technique I use consistently and effectively. That said, It's probably not considered technically "sound", but it works and it works against guys who are experienced. See clip below, only one i could find and I put it in slo mo........ maybe that helps. The cross doesn't have alot of power off that rear foot, but it has enough to get my opponents attention. Not necessarily a fundamentally correct execution of the lead uc cross....... But it works......

Now I think I'm understanding a bit more. I'm think of TS stepping into the uppercut, ala Naseem, and putting himself heavy on the front leg, then moving back into position while throwing the cross. You're getting on the inside and throwing that lead uppercut, and immediately turning it into a cross.
Still, Summer mentioned that he fires the cross as he "comes back into position" and you're firing it right away, without moving your weight, just throwing it from the hip.

Also, two thumbs up, you are on the inside angle but you take away his power hand by immediately targeting where he is leaning and jumping the hell out of there as he covers. You're also leaning away from his power hand, which is putting you dangerously close to his lead hand, but I guess when you're inside like that to a Southpaw, he probably wouldn't be looking for that lead hand.

 

[SummerStriker]

Thanks for responses guys, lemme get back at ya...




This doesn't seem like what the TS said. He said:
"To get my head offline and to the outside while I'm throwing the lead uppercut, I end up putting my weight on my front leg. Then, I throw the cross as my weight shifts back into position - stronger uppercut, weaker cross"

So he is saying the weight goes onto his front leg for his uppercut--- but then he is pulling weight back to his rear leg to get back into starting position. You guys are saying that you shift onto the back leg for a split second and then put the weight forward, but I don't think Summer was describing that. I understand that after the lead uppercut is thrown, you have a slight milisecond shift where weight transfers back as you begin to torque your body, but I don't see him saying he does that. It sounds like he is throwing out a cross as he is putting weight on his back foot.

TS, care to give your thoughts on this one?

You are right in what I was describing, and Sinister shows the uppercut portion at the start of his uppercut video as, "the incorrect way I see a lot of fighters throwing the lead uppercut," basically.

I was saying that I shift away while throwing the cross. The idea of the combo was that you get away completely from the southpaw's cross while throwing the uppercut, and then shift away from their lead hook.

Also, I thought I was shifting back more when I threw the cross, but I watched a video where I was shadow boxing, and while I was intending to shift while throwing it, really I was just sitting on my front leg for both punches.

 

[apizur**]

Oh, and here we are focused on the lead uppercut. Well, me at least.
If you're gonna put your head that far forward, add a step with your lead foot. Don't get so far off your back leg you can't rotate your hips over. Instead of returning to your rear foot by leaning back to it... bring it up with you or slightly outside pivot. Kinda like a one two, except... stepping way lower and deeper and off the center line. Will post pics for clarity if it comes down to it.

 

[Z28MARO]

I dont know if anyones said it yet. But I call this the "chavez" combo. Julio cesar chavez sr used to use this effectively.