Lead hook counter?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by delmata, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. delmata

    delmata White Belt

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    Lately I realized that I was getting too "rear hip dependent" when it came to defense, and by doing so-too predictable. So I incorporated a lot of slips to the front foot. As I was working on mechanics, I studied some counterpunchers, especially JMM and his fight with Bradley. I noticed that JMM rotates his hips and widens his feeta lot when switching to the front hip.
    As I was working on mechanics, I also realized that movement itself is lot faster if my feet leave the ground for a split second while turning the hips.
    When incorporating left hook counter, things got a bit more complicated. I would end up too high after throwing the hook. I resolved that by throwing a shorter hook with elbow kept low. Another thing that was bothering me was lead foot rotation. I would rotate my lead foot in with the hook, and end up in a bad position balance-wise, and wasn't able to follow the hook with rear hand punch. So I worked on throwing a hook without foot rotation.
    Here is a short video of it, first minute is only sliping, and then slip+counter hook. If you got any suggestions or different opinions, share them!

    [YT]F5hav1EqdJ0[/YT]

    Also, here is a bag video from the same session. I was concentrated on staying close to the bag and throwing short punches. Not much defense or movement, just punches. My legs were sore from strength training the day before, so I was like "I'm gonna stay just a bit higher with my hips, so that my quads don't hurt so much".... Of course, I stayed too high and leaned forward anyway. But since I recorded it, I'm sharing it, if you have any critiques please share.

    [YT]44zk5kLMlyg[/YT]
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Just an FYI - That tendency of Marquez to widen his feet has more to do with him being very externally rotated. His body compensates by widening, but he sacrifices balance, hence, he's hit the deck quite a bit. Especially when his own hook is countered with a hook, or a punch that moves generally sideways in relation to his own position.

    Vitali Klitschko also fell right the fuck over from throwing a punch in his fight with Adamek for the same reason.

    The bag work looks better. When you throw the right uppercut, you're in a good enough position to shift to the left hip, but just do it. Don't kick the back foot way back to do it. Turn the rear foot a little, fold the left hip, bring the head straight down (not out beyond the lead foot).
     
  3. MMMFood

    MMMFood Brown Belt

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    nice shoes princess


    (i kid, i kid)
     
  4. delmata

    delmata White Belt

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    Stop kicking right foot back, will practice that! I was thinking about this and re-watching Marquez-Bradley fight. I noticed that most times JMM's right foot stays externally rotated, not allowing his hips to fully rotate. So he kinda leans to the left while slipping, and is in a bad position to receive opponent's left hook. Is this what you meant, or am I missing something?
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    That is it. Ricardo Lopez had the same problem.
     
  6. delmata

    delmata White Belt

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    Thanks for pointing that detail, that's valuable knowledge. Only when you pointed that out did I really start to pay attention to that detail. Wonder why a guy at world class level like JMM hasn't been working on correcting that, it's a pretty big thing when you think about it, especially being a counterpuncher by nature?
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Because Nacho isn't a physical therapist. Nor has any physical therapist he's ever met said: "hey...you know what might help?" And pointed that out in a manner that made sense to them.

    Plus, it's hard to criticize a multiple time World Champion who has been down, but never once stopped. If it ain't broken...
     
  8. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Marquez sticks his back foot waaaay out when he throws a lot of his punches, particularly his right hand and his left uppercut. He hits like a truck anyway because he throws himself almost recklessly forward into that right hand, and has excellent timing, which is also why he's able to counter people with it. He does, however, get knocked down frequently when he's in that position. Thanks to his posture and his chin, he's almost never really hurt, but he gets knocked off balance far too easily.

    Nacho Beristain is a genius because he's taken a guy with a glaring flaw and strategically turned him into the second-best counter puncher in the world. If Nacho had a physical therapist's mindset and knowledge, I'd be willing to bet that Marquez would have beat Mayweather. It would have definitely been even closer.
     
  9. delmata

    delmata White Belt

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    Well, I have utmost respect for both JMM and Nacho. Even more so because I know that they hired a professional S&C coach Angel "Memo" Heredia for the last Pacquiao fight. And that tells me that both JMM and Nacho are able to put their ego's and prejudice's aside, and seek for professional help when is needed (unlike so many others in this sport).
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Sort of. There's videos of Marquez training and in many of them he cusses out people in the Gym, or the S&C Coach. Its not as much him putting his ego aside as it is that you have to be able to put up with his ego.
     
  11. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    But that doesn't have to be nan ego thing necessarily that's just assumption on my part but maybe he naturally just gets pretty heated in training
     
  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Its not about him getting heated, it's about that when he does open his mouth he talks to people like they're beneath him.
     
  13. delmata

    delmata White Belt

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    Didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me, this sport is full of big egos and I learned that a big part of a trainer's job is being able to juggle with ego's... Roach, Ariza and Pac comes to mind, Mayweather family...
     
  14. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    You've got a good hook brah. Maybe you should be posting in the 'Hook Problem' thread.

    It consists of many people arguing about the mechanics of how to throw a hook. Yet no one has posted a personal demonstration of themselves throwing a proper hook. I wonder if many of them even know what they're going on about. Arguing for the sake of arguing imo.
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Or you could post a demonstration...
     
  16. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    Nah, i don't pretend to know the exact mechanics and science behind it all. If i said anything disagreeable in that thread, feel free to call me out on it.

    As you can see i didn't get into all that shoulder, chest, elasticity, recoil, flexing, stretching whatever discussion because i really don't know what the fuck everyone is talking about, nor do i even want to try and comprehend. Are those even the terms you would use to teach a complete beginner (or anybody for that matter) at the gym?

    Some guy posts a video of the Fight Smart guy who gives you all his science and fancy terms behind it, yet you don't see him once demonstrate his aforementioned "hooks with ridiculous power". But then again, i'm not really a cerebral learner in that way. Give me an analogy and i can visualize and execute much better.

    Also in true keyboard warrior fashion, i've never felt the need to receive validation for all the shit i say and claim in this forum by posting videos. I've told people their sparring is terrible, i've gotten the "So where's your sparring, huh?" challenges. Never felt the need to justify things with a video.

    But since that felt like a personal challenge on your part, and we've known each other long enough in the forum sense, i might just take you up on that demonstration. I know after all these years of my posting in stand up, your curiosity must be piqued. Wondering if i'm really just some smug big talking hack :icon_chee
     

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