Larry Merchants Comments on Kickboxing/MMA

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by MrPissant, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. MrPissant

    MrPissant Purple Belt

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    Anyone who watched the Marquez/Pacquiao fight saw an undercard fight with a former Muay THai fighter "Jandaeng" fight a decent fight, but came up short on the decision.

    ANyway did anyone catch Larry Merchants comments on Kickboxers/Martial Arts fighters? He said he spent some time recently in Bangkok and watched several Muay Thai fights. He complimented MT Fighters on their strength and leg kicking but said they have no balance when it comes to boxing. Later on in the fight, he then said that all professional Martial Arts fighers have no proper balance in boxing at all. Basically saying MMA fighters/Martial Arts fighters can't box.

    Agree/Disagree?

    I can sorta see his point but at the same time he just sounds like a fuckin douche.

    Comments?
     
  2. Yanoush

    Yanoush Guest

    shit doesn't even make sense
     
  3. genejo

    genejo White Belt

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    I watched that fight, it was a good one. Jandaeng has one hell of a chin, he ate so many jabs!

    Anyways I don't think Larry Merchants was trying to say martial artists can't box. When it comes to boxing, MT fighters and other martial artists all use different stances, none of which are proper boxing forms.

    The argument could easily be switched around by saying boxers don't have good muay thai stances.
     
  4. Garrett E.

    Garrett E. Orange Belt

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    Boxers box, which is why it is called boxing.

    Boxing commentators with a limited view on boxing will always be limited. Of course MT guys hands are underdeveloped, because they have other primary wepons, ie; kicks, knees, elbows, ect.

    You can't relate different sports even if they both involve fighting. What if i were to say a boxer has underdeveloped takedown defense, or underdeveloped knee skills, does that mean the MT guy is better?

    Its a stupid argument, and one that needs to stop--boxing is a sport, the sport of fighting with your hands, organized MMA is a sport--with different rules/boundries!
     
  5. MrPissant

    MrPissant Purple Belt

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    Yeah, it was a good fight. Jandaeng has mad power and he did knockdown that guy I think in the 3rd solid Left. Seemed like the other guy was running away the rest of the fight knowing that Jandaeng couldve knocked him the hell out at any time.

    I understand where Larry was coming from like I said. I just couldnt help but think he was trying to hate on everything that was NOT boxing.
     
  6. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    lol For a bunch of Martial Arts practitioners or enthusiasts, some of you guys sure do get sandy vaginas anytime someone makes an even remotely detractive comment about an Art you Admire. Hate to tell you this, but Larry's right.

    When you spend a lot of time (in Larry's case the better part of about 60 years) watching Boxing, practitioners of other Arts that involve punching seem to look inferior with regard to ONLY punching. And what he said about balance was perfectly exemplified by Jandaeng's style. He threw nice hooks, had plenty of speed and power, but everything that was wrong with him was everything right about Luevano's basic fundamentals which allowed him to win the fight.

    He was absolutely saying that Muay Thay practitioners, and other Martial Artists can't box and don't possess the balance that is learned from years of Boxing. Anyone who has ever done more than one Art should agree, because when you learn to Box you have to unlearn most things you know about head-movement (or lack of), foot movement (or lack of), and how to deliver the techniques properly.

    And if the reverse were true, you'd say the same thing. We just had a thread in here about Pro Boxer In Jin Chi most-likely sucking at K-1 because of lack of similar understandings about kickboxing. It's not a cut on other Arts, it's an observant truth when looking at one or the other. Muay Thai practitioners don't box as well as Boxers even though their art possesses throwing punches, Boxers don't kick at all, and the Boxing clinch is vastly different from Muay Thai.
     
  7. MrPissant

    MrPissant Purple Belt

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    Agreed. Just wanted to know what you all thought. Good posts.
     
  8. jwalk2515

    jwalk2515 White Belt

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    Larry is pro-boxing and anti-mma. If a former MMA/MT guy won a title fight he would attribute it to a great boxing coach.

    Quite a few of the old time boxing guys feel MMA is spoiling the sport. They will never evolve into MMA fans; unless Zuffa hires them...

    Absolutely no difference in that and MMA guys saying a boxer will not survive a "real" fight.
     
  9. THEKOKID

    THEKOKID Orange Belt

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    well why would i want boxing balance if im primarily kicking?? lol

    there's nothing wrong with what he said, it's true... just like most boxers don't have muay thai balance
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    1) You're thinking of Jim Lampley, Larry doesn't make and hasn't made any hateful comments towards MMA. Nothing he said had anything to do with MMA as a Sport, so stop with the propaganda.

    2) Boxing guys don't feel MMA is spoiling the Sport. Right now the only arguable competition for the UFC is run by a Boxing Guy.
     
  11. RemoWilliams

    RemoWilliams Guest

    I watched the fight and having a boxing background myself I think Larry was more making a fundamentals argument. Balance in boxing, is basically a fundamental you pick up early, which Great Boxers start boxing in the Jr. Olympics like at 12.

    That argument I agree with.

    I've seen good old school fighters in the 70's and 80's who I consider "very good" boxers in the sense they have solid foundations and implement it into their martial arts repertoire (the Joe Lewis's, the Benny Urquidez's etc). Those guys had boxing.

    Could they handle a life long veteran boxer with 20+ years of boxing from a young age?

    Maybe, Maybe not.

    Fundamentals wise? Balance, Timing, etc? Probably not.

    Just my opinion.
     
  12. Rinksterk**

    Rinksterk** Banned Banned

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    So in a nutshell, Merchant said boxers are better boxers than MMA and MT guys. What's new? The earth is round?
     
  13. Rinksterk**

    Rinksterk** Banned Banned

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    Heh. Half of sherdog probably never even stepped foot in a gym. If people actually spent time to study different martial arts, they would actually have respect for the different styles.
     
  14. 2om30

    2om30 Red Belt

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    LOL! i agree.. some of the MMA'ers have terrible boxing skills..
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He's like 80 years old and probably had like two 5ths of Bourbon before the broadcast began.
     
  16. Yanoush

    Yanoush Guest

    oh I agree

    But I just don't understand his terminology with "balance". Using that word makes it seem like MTers lack something fundamental that boxers have.
     
  17. Rinksterk**

    Rinksterk** Banned Banned

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    I'm no expert, but from my experience, balance in boxing and balance in other sports is different. I know guys in my gym who wrestled before and some MMA guys who take boxing to get better at striking. Wrestlers and grapplers in general obviously have incredible balance, right? No. In boxing you can get off balance from throwing punches. I see new guys who tip their body to the side when throw a cross and unbalanced. Some new guys have too narrow of a stance so when they throw combos, they're stumbling all over the place. Former wrestlers or judokas may have excellent balance when somebody is trying to toss them around, but they lose balance when throwing punches because they're not used to it.
    Same thing for MTers. They're good at keeping themselves balanced while throwing kicks or knees, but they may not be used to elevating low for body punches or using boxing footwork. A boxer with great balance may stumble around when throwing a kick for the first time.

    Its a different game.
     
  18. cockysprinter

    cockysprinter Purple Belt

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    kk said more or less what i was thinking. ive definitely experienced this as someone who first did striking in the form of kickboxing/muay thai. i constantly have most of my weight on one leg or another, because my kicks are faster. i also tend to have straighter legs for the same reason. as a result, i can string punches and kicks together pretty well, and use the kicks themselves to promote my footwork. however, in boxing i cant do the same things at all. for a long time my boxing coaches would tell me to sit down more and that i was off balance. if i throw a power punch with most of my weight on one foot, i do find myself off balance. it took some getting used to.
     
  19. cockysprinter

    cockysprinter Purple Belt

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    i think hes just saying that the balance is different, and it is.
     
  20. T.J.T

    T.J.T Green Belt

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    If your talking about boxing, then yes MT does lack something Boxing has.

    its pretty simple, people just take it out of context (not suggesting the TS did, but others who have posted have). I highly doubt he meant anything bad but he could be refering to silva trying to box in his next fight. although silva is amazing in mma, and his MT is strong, boxing is a whole diffrent world. much like if he were to fight MT, although thats what hes strong in, mma is a bit diffrent for the obvous reasons.

    You dont just train your hands and foot work for punching in mt, so i would have to assume our balance and hands and foot work is not as good as boxing. could someone who trains MT become a great boxer? sure but as stated you will have to unlearn things and probably learn new things.

    they are diffrent sports no need to cry foul.
     

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