Kubrick vs Tarkovsky - who was better?

[MacDuffle]

You guys are absolute legends for not only making a tarkovsky thread but for correctly giving him credit for creating very specific types of film compositions decades before master shots and long takes or painterly approaches took fashion in international cinema

It has also been debated whether the front-bumper mounted tracking shot in Solaris (seen here)
was the longest single take forward track for its time

The other devastatingly sad fact of Tarkovskys career was that he was not able to view films from other countries, and was largely creating his composition style from scratch due to heavy censorship of all outside media

To make matters more interesting, hardcore fans of Wong Kar Wai have pointed out numerous shots and tracking sequences that seemed to be nods to Tarkovsky, including the infamous motorcycle sequences (and generally tracking-heavy entire film) in Fallen Angels, decades later



The shot pans up to a break in the bridge overpass revealing sky, and is massively rumored to be a symbol of the director nodding upwards to Tarkovsky, who would have never lived to see the long list of asian films he directly inspired and influenced

Heartbreaking if you think about it

 

[John Wang]

Wow you have good taste in movies BUNZZZ I didnt see you being a dominant film buff!! HHHNNG

Thank!! What is your favorite movie??

 

[badascan]

Recently been turned on to tartovsky but Kubrick is my favorite director. So Kubrick.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Thank!! What is your favorite movie??

Andrei Rublev is my favorite

 

[Project 2501]

Tarkovsky by first round KO. Kubrick is the most overhyped and overrated director of all time.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I really do need to get around to watching more Tarkovsky, I saw Solaris and Stalker way back in the early 90's on the BBC's moviedrome showcase and picked up the DVD's more recently.

As far as Kubrick goes honestly I tend to think there very different film makers. Kubrick tended more towards a harsh modern minimalism in a lot of his work and generally I think he was driven by a black sense of humour, I would argue that all his films post Strangelove are on some level comedies, Tarkovsky on the other hand was I think more heartfelt and more poetic visually, to me the more obvious comparison is early Ridley Scott with Stalker I think likely being part of the inspiration for Blade Runner and indeed Alien having more than a little of the look of Solaris about it.

 

[HenryFlower]

the one that directed The Mirror

 

[MacDuffle]

Also Birdman and Inarritu in general are products of a Tarkovsky influence in Spain making its way through time to Mexico

Russian filmmaking influence spreading to countries over time is a very complicated and cool subject

South Korean films borrowed heavily from Russian styles which made their full-framing, long take, tracked cinematography skyrocket compared to the full-face close ups and shot-reverse-shot of french and western european traditional

Kim Ki Duk for example (south korea) makes french inspired arthouse while wong kar wai (china) makes explicitly chinese styled arthouse while takashi kitano (japan) made a crazy mixture of south korean and chinese styled arthouse because he secretly hates japan

Tracking film styles as they diffuse into countries through certain decades towards modern filmmaking is fun. I always had a problem with french styles spreading, which spread to goddamned nearly everyone really early on and fucked up Realism style for years by refusing to separate clearly neo-modernist art tactics from Realism, which today translates into making many of your most poignant film moments take their cues from french new wave muteness and a rather unrealistic performance art basis instead of using organic soundscapes or active dialogue like you see in literature and other realism media

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Had to revive this thread why I saw a Sherdog thread crop up on a Tarkovsky/Kubrick search on Google.

Having watched all of Tarkovsky's work now I would tend to say he tended much more towards ploughing a similar furrow, Kubrick had a certain visual style to him and a certain viewpoint but the nature of his films obviously differed significantly were as post Ivan's Childhood Tarkovsky's work is much more similar even if the settings are different. For me as well I think his highpoints with Andrei Rublev and Stalker were higher although equally I'm not sure I would give a definitive judgement on The Mirror yet.

Influence wise both are obviously very significant but I would relate Tarkovsky more to Can in music were most peoples exposure is via indirect influence. Considering the 2001/Solaris debate in terms of visuals Kubrick's film is obviously the much better known yet I think you could argue its modernism was if anything a the tale end of the style we'd seen in sci fi since the 50's. Solaris on the other hand I think you could argue played a massive part in creating the more post modern "lived in future" that came to dominant cinema much more in the years afterwards though the likes of Alien, Blade Runner and especially Starwars.

 

[MacDuffle]

Had to revive this thread why I saw a Sherdog thread crop up on a Tarkovsky/Kubrick search on Google.

Having watched all of Tarkovsky's work now I would tend to say he tended much more towards ploughing a similar furrow, Kubrick had a certain visual style to him and a certain viewpoint but the nature of his films obviously differed significantly were as post Ivan's Childhood Tarkovsky's work is much more similar even if the settings are different. For me as well I think his highpoints with Andrei Rublev and Stalker were higher although equally I'm not sure I would give a definitive judgement on The Mirror yet.

Influence wise both are obviously very significant but I would relate Tarkovsky more to Can in music were most peoples exposure is via indirect influence. Considering the 2001/Solaris debate in terms of visuals Kubrick's film is obviously the much better known yet I think you could argue its modernism was if anything a the tale end of the style we'd seen in sci fi since the 50's. Solaris on the other hand I think you could argue played a massive part in creating the more post modern "lived in future" that came to dominant cinema much more in the years afterwards though the likes of Alien, Blade Runner and especially Starwars.

I agree completely

both directors adapted films from books (other authors) but Kubrick had american access to a variety of countries and genres, Tarkovsky was stuck adapting russian literature to champion the russian story with government pressure leaning heavily on their cinema

so if all Tarkovsky's plots ding his work as a storyteller because they were bleak and grim and stared savagely into the middle distance in fields, its because his library of references wouldn't stock anything else

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

Heard of some Tarkovsky movies. Honestly I never see any, so I can't judge him fairly.

 

[Midnighter]

It's all just preference.

Heard of some Tarkovsky movies. Honestly I never see any, so I can't judge him fairly.

Solaris is on youtube.

There might be others on there.

 

[JabToucher]

Eyes wide shut is so unappreciated!!

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I agree completely

both directors adapted films from books (other authors) but Kubrick had american access to a variety of countries and genres, Tarkovsky was stuck adapting russian literature to champion the russian story with government pressure leaning heavily on their cinema

so if all Tarkovsky's plots ding his work as a storyteller because they were bleak and grim and stared savagely into the middle distance in fields, its because his library of references wouldn't stock anything else

I think both of them were fundamentally anti establishment directors, Kubrick had a very obvious anti war sentiment along with negative views of criminal justice and colonialism. Tarkovsky started off with the same anti war message with Ivan's and then moved onto films with an obviously spiritual nature that did not go down well at all with the authorities, Andrei Rublev was suppressed for years after the original release for example and he ended up leaving the USSR to work in western Europe.

Eyes wide shut is so unappreciated!

Perhaps due to the negative talk I'd never gotten around to watching this until last year but I'd agree. In some respects I spose you could argue its been a little "cruiseifed" but equally I think it does end up being quite an interesting new direction, makes me even sader we didn't get to see anything else from him.

 

[MacDuffle]

I think both of them were fundamentally anti establishment directors, Kubrick had a very obvious anti war sentiment along with negative views of criminal justice and colonialism. Tarkovsky started off with the same anti war message with Ivan's and then moved onto films with an obviously spiritual nature that did not go down well at all with the authorities, Andrei Rublev was suppressed for years after the original release for example and he ended up leaving the USSR to work in western Europe.



Perhaps due to the negative talk I'd never gotten around to watching this until last year but I'd agree. In some respects I spose you could argue its been a little "cruiseifed" but equally I think it does end up being quite an interesting new direction, makes me even sader we didn't get to see anything else from him.

If anything, I don't think Tarkovsky made particularly explicit statements to defy authority (I'm trying to think of a scene that packed that kind of punch directly,) I think his work was so mysteriously open-interpretive it became blanket-labeled subversive like many painters and other media artists of their day

 

[Wilmer Digreux]

interesting thread. tarkovsky for me. Wish I could see all the pics in the OP.

 

[HenryFlower]

@moreorless87 have you come to a conclusion on The Mirror yet, aka the greatest film ever made

 

[StonedLemur]

^ cool vid of some side by side shots from Kubrick and Tarkovsky films. And I've always loved the score they are using. It was in the dream sequence in Shutter Island.


I've never seen a Tarkovsky film but I've heard the name for years. Thanks to @Roxxo over in the Film Masterpieces thread for bringing him up. I googled some pics of Tarkovsky's films and watched a few short vids and i gotta say, I'm seriously impressed by what I've seen.

I know some of you here know film much better than I do, so let me ask you, who was better? Stanley Kubrick or Andrei Tarkovsky?





Tarkovsky:

Kubrick:

Out of all those pics only 3 showed up...smfh....oh Sherdog you're fuckin killin me.

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Apples & Oranges. One is low budget, lesser known art while the other is big budget, more mainstream art.

All depends on what you are looking for in a film to be quite honest.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Holy crap the issue with pics really needs to be fixed. Shit's terrible.