KO power and "submission hold strength" is vastly overstimated.

[NenadRS]

If any ranked FW (except Aljo lol) lands a totally unexpected, clean, precise and full range hook to an opponent looking elsewhere... he is going down.


Do we agree on that?

No, punching power varies a lot, and also ability to take a punch. Those things you do not train much, it is mostly talent, people are born with it. Many fighters cannot KO or knock out with one punch, even if you stand still and allow free punch. Strickland lets say, or Jones, Sonnen, especially in lower weight classes it is harder.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Totally agree.

In fact, I was not understimating the huge value of strength in wrestling and grappling as a whole. I'm sticking to the title thread: once a lock is perfectly sealed and if body positioning is right, relative strength between the two opponents become a non-factor, because the leverage involved greatly potentiates the attacker exerted force while negating the defender's.

Sure, power punchers can KO someone without the need to land the perfect shot. Is Ilia a power puncher? All his opponents have highlighted his heavy hands, but all of his KOs came from perfectly executed, precise, full torque, clean, unexpected shots.

I believe (I can be very wrong, sure) that any ranked FW landing a shot that perfect -I'm talking about the right hook that flash KO'ed Max- would took him down, too.

And that's not a criticism, in any case it would be a compliment.

Right hook...

 

[Hdfi]

The unpopular reality is that strength is more important than technique in wrestling.

 

[Paladin]

First, I have no clue of how strong Ilia or Khamzat are. I'm sure they have very, very, very hight relative strength.

But, and if you have just trained a bit at ANY level, you know any dude with a functional shoulder/wrist/hip can exert the force needed to KO another dude. If you accurately land an unexpected shot, it's lights out.

Regarding punching power: I can tell a dude like Beterbiev, that landing on a tight guard still does serious damage, has power. Or guys like Deontay, Francis, Rampage, Poatan and so on that even landing glazing shots, his opponents rolling with them or not hitting perfectly on target... KTFO their opponents.

Regarding grappling strength, and that comes from someone that has barely no clinch/wrestling/ground training and has only played a little to know how it feels... (but these words are from my teacher's).
Human body is very, very fragile.
If you catch someone the right way, so you have the leverage and he is in a compromised position, the strength relation between you two goes almost logarythmically.

You don't need insane strength by any means to break someone's jaw if the crank is perfectly taken and executed. Even if it's perfectly defended once you got the upper hand regarding positioning.

Technique and decent power will get it done.
Power alone is dangerous in the right instances but add technique.. things get deadly

 

[Iroh]

Face cranks are not supposed to instantly concave a face.

The word overrated is 'overated'.

First you have to prove (or make a case for) how something is rated, then you can make an argument about if it is accurately rated.

Most of the time people just base how things are rated on vague impressions, without any critical examination on if it's actually what people believe.

 

[Rubios]

Left hook, my bad. And I've watched the final sequence lots of times, but got confused with the cross that rocked Max.

 

[Poatan Power]

I have trained in some capacity since I was 13 years old. I'm unfortunately 37. Strength and KO power matter tremendously.

1. Because with tremendous power, you don't need to land a clean shot. You can land a glancing, weird angled shot that is hard to see coming/defend and blast a dude unconscious. I.E., Peirera.

2. With strength, you don't need to assert perfect dominant position to get a submission. Your strength can overcome bad positions and strengthen good ones in addition to making submission defense impossible.

Get out on the mats more, dude.

The unpopular reality is that strength is more important than technique in wrestling.

My humble opinion is that it's the combination of speed and strength.

 

[Rubios]

No, punching power varies a lot, and also ability to take a punch. Those things you do not train much, it is mostly talent, people are born with it. Many fighters cannot KO or knock out with one punch, even if you stand still and allow free punch. Strickland lets say, or Jones, Sonnen, especially in lower weight classes it is harder.

So you think if i.e. Diego/Volk/Yair... landed that same left hook evenly accurate, charged, clean and coming from nowhere Max could maybe have chewed it without getting KO'ed.

I don't think so, I believe given the perfect punch the amount of strength needed to produce a KO is attainable by pretty much anyone with functional strenght strength and the basic fundamentals to engage his full kinetic chain and properly align shoulder and wrist in a compact motion.

But I may be totally wrong, not trying to stand my ground.

*Maybe Ilia still hit this punch like a bulldozer, we'll never get to know.

 

[NenadRS]

So you think if i.e. Diego/Volk/Yair... landed that same left hook evenly accurate, charged, clean and coming from nowhere Max could maybe have chewed it without getting KO'ed.

Yes, but that is the problem, they cannot throw the same punch, with same mechanism/speed/power/timing, that part is talent somewhat, comes naturally to them e.g. Alex Pereira hooks, many throw similar punch but it is not the same, they do not KO people that easy. He has power, snap, proper movement, speed. He is just different.

In many sports it is like that, very small percentage of people have unique talents, which others cannot reach no matter the training, physical strength, etc...

For example I can throw stone very far, haven't met anyone yet that can do it better, and I have many friends that are stronger physically, or taller, or better in other things. Probably similar with punches, it is not matter of strength alone...