Knee kicks in MMA.

[terrapin]

I have been thinking a lot about kicks to the knee and I think they're vastly underutilized in UFC and MMA in general and I'm wondering why that would be?

There are so many openings and opportunities for knee crushing kicks to the knee that I wonder why more fighters don't use them.

Even just during regular stand-up exchanges, if a person was well versed in front kicks to the knee and side kicks to the knee, they could literally just destroy an opponent with one blow if it lands properly.

Just think of grappling exchanges where a fighter is kneeing a person in the leg... that's close range enough to literally stomp all the way through a person's knee. Why isn't that done more often?

I personally think those kinds of kicks should not be legal, but they are legal and so this thread isn't about whether they should be allowed in the rules or not. This thread is genuinely questioning why they're not utilized by more fighters since they are allowed to be used and since they could end the fight so easily?

 

[Bork Neslar]

Stipe should use them against Jones.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

 

[terrapin]

Stipe should use them against Jones.

The thing is with Jones they're thrown with such a lack of commitment. It seems like he's really not trying to really break the knee. Just kind of f*** someone up and get them guessing.

I think I've only ever seen one knee kick thrown with real commitment and it was a tko with one kick.

 

[Reach4theSky]

 

[terrapin]

Like I said in the above post, Jon Jones is throwing them from so far out he has no chance of doubling the knee backwards and creating a TKO so it's not really a committed use of the attack. It's got to be worked into combinations or counters when the fighters are already closer together or even possibly during grappling exchanges.

And the question is why since one kick can create a TKO so easily, these kicks are not utilized by most people.

 

[JBJ was here]

The teep/side kick to the top front of the knee works best against an opponent who's heavy on the front foot and not ready to catch/block the kick. In that case it's a KO shot. The rest of the time the kick to the top front of the knee is more of a tactical element that isn't quite as useful as other leg kicks unless you have the leg reach of a Jon Jones.

 

[nonoob]

It's possibly a career ending strike, a bad sportsmanship POS move imho.

​

 

[terrapin]

The teep/side kick to the top front of the knee works best against an opponent who's heavy on the front foot and not ready to catch/block the kick. In that case it's a KO shot. The rest of the time the kick to the top front of the knee is more of a tactical element that isn't quite as useful as other leg kicks unless you have the leg reach of a Jon Jones.

I agree totally that that's how it's used now. But there are so many opportunities for being closer in through counters or combinations and also some grappling exchanges that it's an absolute mystery to me that it's not used way more for the TKO.

If you trained it often regularly and made it a regular part of your arsenal, you would be a way more dangerous fighter.... Now personally, I can't stand the thought of kicking someone like that and wouldn't do it, but I'm just wondering why more people don't?

You are describing what is happening. I'm asking the question why isn't the other happening?

 

[terrapin]

It's possibly a career ending strike, a bad sportsmanship POS move imho.

​

I totally agree with this and I don't even think the kick should be legal but it is. And so I'm wondering is it just honor that keeps people from using it? It's just so strange to me...

 

[gentel]

They have teep kicks to the knees in Muay Thai and no one cares and it's not a giant game breaker move cause they have the skill of not being so heavy on the front foot

 

[Bork Neslar]

The thing is with Jones they're thrown with such a lack of commitment. It seems like he's really not trying to really break the knee. Just kind of f*** someone up and get them guessing.

I think I've only ever seen one knee kick thrown with real commitment and it was a tko with one kick.

I said Stipe should use them against Jones, not otherwise. It's a well known fact it's one of Jones' favorite strikes.

 

[terrapin]

I said Stipe should use them against Jones, not otherwise. It's a well known fact it's one of Jones favorite strikes.

Yes I misunderstood you. I thought you were making a joke and mocking me because I didn't know Jones used those kicks...

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

And yes, stipe should train only eye gouges and knee for fight with Jones!!

 

[nonoob]

I totally agree with this and I don't even think the kick should be legal but it is. And so I'm wondering is it just honor that keeps people from using it?

It's got to be honor, having enough respect to battle your fellow fighter without maiming them.

 

[aerius]

I personally think those kinds of kicks should not be legal, but they are legal and so this thread isn't about whether they should be allowed in the rules or not. This thread is genuinely questioning why they're not utilized by more fighters since they are allowed to be used and since they could end the fight so easily?

First, we need to understand how push kicks to the knee work and when they're effective. It's not some magic button insta-kill move unless the opponent is a newb or he uses a stance & style that leaves his front leg vulnerable. For the push kick to break knees, the opponent has to be in a stance which leaves the front leg fairly straight and he also has to have a good amount of weight on the leg. If the stance has a good bend in the knee, a push kick won't be enough to bend it the wrong way or do any real damage. If he has a light front leg, a push kick to the knee will just push the entire leg backwards without doing damage.

Which means defence isn't all that hard. For example, the French have Savate which is basically kickboxing with shoes where kicking the knee is a big part of the sport. They have many ways to defend it like staying light on the lead leg, keeping a good stance, raising the leg to check, pulling the leg back, or bracing into the kick to absorb it and step in with punches. It's not hard, and despite fighters getting kicked in the knees a bunch of times in every fight there aren't a bunch of fighters getting their knees broken or anything.

 

[DapperDave]

Like I said in the above post, Jon Jones is throwing them from so far out he has no chance of doubling the knee backwards and creating a TKO so it's not really a committed use of the attack. ...

The video shows Jones fucking up knees, and your response is, "Jones is not fucking up knees."

 

[terrapin]

First, we need to understand how push kicks to the knee work and when they're effective. It's not some magic button insta-kill move unless the opponent is a newb or he uses a stance & style that leaves his front leg vulnerable. For the push kick to break knees, the opponent has to be in a stance which leaves the front leg fairly straight and he also has to have a good amount of weight on the leg. If the stance has a good bend in the knee, a push kick won't be enough to bend it the wrong way or do any real damage. If he has a light front leg, a push kick to the knee will just push the entire leg backwards without doing damage.

Which means defence isn't all that hard. For example, the French have Savate which is basically kickboxing with shoes where kicking the knee is a big part of the sport. They have many ways to defend it like staying light on the lead leg, keeping a good stance, raising the leg to check, pulling the leg back, or bracing into the kick to absorb it and step in with punches. It's not hard, and despite fighters getting kicked in the knees a bunch of times in every fight there aren't a bunch of fighters getting their knees broken or anything.

I think I'm aware of all of this but I just don't find it very convincing frankly. When I'm watching MMA fights, there are tons and tons of opportunities to throw that kick throughout most MMA fights. Sure, in a style where that's a big part of the combat people are prepared and ready for it. Like say Muay Thai having not a lot of weight on the front leg, but the average MMA fight affords many opportunities to throw that kick, especially if you actually train it in a committed way. Also, during some grappling exchanges I see lots and lots of opportunities to throw that kick and yet no one ever does.

Timing and distancing are important and it's during exchanges very often where I see opportunities to even take a bent front leg and not only straighten it, but bend it backwards six or eight more inches easily from many positions.

I'm not thinking in terms of magical deadly strikes. I'm thinking in very practical terms and seeing this as a completely underutilized technique within the rule set and my guess is that people don't train it seriously because they have more honor than the kind of person who would use that as a regular part of their arsenal.

Nearly every single time a fighter kicks the rear leg out from under somebody after catching a kick or kicks someone's legs out from under them. That could have easily have been a knee strike too.

 

[terrapin]

The video shows Jones fucking up knees, and your response is, "Jones is not fucking up knees."

Go back and read my post carefully if you misunderstood me. I know he's hurting people's knees but he's throwing them from so far out that he can't really bend the knee backwards more than an inch or so, but it's completely possible with just six more inches of range to bend that knee back 6 incjes and that's a blown knee and a TKO.

Basically, if Jones was in striking position with his hands in striking range he could have blown any out a knee. Jones doesn't use that kick in that way.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Go back and read my post carefully if you misunderstood me. I know he's hurting people's knees but he's throwing them from so far out that he can't really bend the knee backwards more than an inch or so, but it's completely possible with just six more inches of range to bend that knee back 6 incjes and that's a blown knee and a TKO.

Basically, if Jones was in striking position with his hands in striking range he could have blown any out a knee. Jones doesn't use that kick in that way.

You have to be in a specific range, which is usually boxing/just slightly inside boxing range, to do real fight ending damage with them, that's why they aren't used as much outside of Jon's version of it.
The only recent one from memory is Rountree's KO of Daukaus with it. It shows what JBJ said, that an opponent has to be extremely heavy on the lead leg and basically be in boxing range for it do cause as much damage at once as you are looking for in a fight ending sequence

The teep/side kick to the top front of the knee works best against an opponent who's heavy on the front foot and not ready to catch/block the kick. In that case it's a KO shot. The rest of the time the kick to the top front of the knee is more of a tactical element that isn't quite as useful as other leg kicks unless you have the leg reach of a Jon Jones.

 

[terrapin]

You have to be in a specific range, which is usually boxing/just slightly inside boxing range, to do real fight ending damage with them, that's why they aren't used as much outside of Jon's version of it.
The only recent one from memory is Rountree's KO of Daukaus with it. It shows what JBJ said, that an opponent has to be extremely heavy on the lead leg and basically be in boxing range for it do cause as much damage at once as you are looking for in a fight ending sequence

That's my point though when you're in boxing range that kick could be extremely useful in tons of ways and the only reason it's not is because people don't train as a regular part of their arsenal in that range.

But there are also many grappling exchanges where that kick would be completely useful and could be utilized along with while countering certain kicks.

And the kick is legal and so then my question is why aren't people training it very seriously and I'm not convinced and never have been convinced at all that people have considered it and found it not to be useful. I don't buy that for one second
It's at least as simple as some of the most effective basic techniques in MMA. there's some other reason.

It's probably that most people just don't want to kick people's knees in, but I'm just very curious about it.