Kimura from half-guard bottom?

[seammagear]

Was attempting a kimura from half-guard bottom today, when one of the more senior guys told me not to do that, and showed me how the guy up top could easily reverse the kimura to finish me instead.

My question is, does that put the kimura from bottom half out of the equation? Or does it just mean you have to be smarter on how you avoid the reversal? Can't remember where, but I watched a black belt demo the kimura from bottom recently, so I would expect that he'd know a thing or two about the reversal, and was confident of finishing the kimura even with the threat.

 

[String Bean]

i dont mean to hijack the thread or anything, but i get caught in kimuras when im passing half guard often enough. how do you reverse it?

 

[Lasse]

Also interested in the reversal. Use the kimura from bottom every time someone gives it to me. Usually ends with a sweep though but never had someone "reversed it" and ended up in a better position. Was it not more specific to how you performed the technique?

 

[dza76wutang]

The reversal I am familiar with is usually an armbar. The kimura grip from bottom can, if the opponent has the mobility and the know how, enable the top opponent to spin into an arm bar.

However, as an avid kimura user, the efficacy of that reversal diminishes once you know about it, in my opinion. Also, the utility of the kimura from bottom far outweighs the risk. I would keep working it just be aware of the reversal and bail if you feel them attempt it.

 

[bjornvil]

I get caught in a Kimura from bottom half sometimes. Usually they are not able to finish it though, but it stops me passing the guard.

If they have my arm and I can get my leg loose then I spin to the armbar

 

[loyalyolayal]

The reversal I am familiar with is usually an armbar. The kimura grip from bottom can, if the opponent has the mobility and the know how, enable the top opponent to spin into an arm bar.

However, as an avid kimura user, the efficacy of that reversal diminishes once you know about it, in my opinion. Also, the utility of the kimura from bottom far outweighs the risk. I would keep working it just be aware of the reversal and bail if you feel them attempt it.

this.

i go for the kimura from everywhere, my partners smarten up & go for armbars when i grab the double wristlock from half guard. just make sure your half-guard is tight to avoid your partner from escaping.

 

[seammagear]

Ok, I admit I didn't spend much time looking at the details of the reversal as I was in a rush, but could be this vid based on the description. Connection is bad now, so can't check to confirm.

YouTube - Demian Maia Science Of Jiu-Jitsu - Counter Attacks

 

[Cagequeen]

this.

i go for the kimura from everywhere, my partners smarten up & go for armbars when i grab the double wristlock from half guard. just make sure your half-guard is tight to avoid your partner from escaping.

This or roll with the arm bar attempt to escape.

 

[seammagear]

this.

i go for the kimura from everywhere, my partners smarten up & go for armbars when i grab the double wristlock from half guard. just make sure your half-guard is tight to avoid your partner from escaping.

So just be sensitive and abandon the technique when I sense danger? Is there a way to keep my technique tight and reduce chances or avoid the counter?

 

[dza76wutang]

So just be sensitive and abandon the technique when I sense danger? Is there a way to keep my technique tight and reduce chances or avoid the counter?

Keep your legs tight/lock down to reduce the chance to spin. If you feel the sudden change in weight/momentum, move to pre-counter the armbar and sweep.

That's what I do.

EDIT: Tech->counter->recounter->....->finish are what BJJ is all about, so being sensitive enough to react that fraction of a second sooner will accumulate so you win in the end.

 

[loyalyolayal]

So just be sensitive and abandon the technique when I sense danger? Is there a way to keep my technique tight and reduce chances or avoid the counter?

if you're grabbing his left arm, you musn't let his left leg go over. if he's about to.


you open your guard, scoot your hips & get him in your guard again or just go for the scramble.

i mean, i'm no expert but that's what i do...

 

[An end for]

I have no idea of what I do, but I do the kimura from that position, and sometimes even the americana but it can't finish anyone and it's more a fluke thing I use to sweep.

 

[Hellboy31]

I know the guy on top can hit a far side armbar if you're attempting the kimura when your opponent is in side control but not half guard... I'd have to see what that would look like.

 

[dza76wutang]

I know the guy on top can hit a far side armbar if you're attempting the kimura when your opponent is in side control but not half guard... I'd have to see what that would look like.

Wiley practioners can armbar from half, the percentage is obviously a bit less, but I have experienced it from my former instructor, who was one of the craftiest bastards I ever met.

 

[Shemhazai]

I'd say the Kimura from half guard bottom is perfectly legit, and even high percentage if you're good with it, but there are counters (as with all techniques). I know several blacks and browns at my gym who use it frequently, BTW. I've started using it a lot lately as a 'pit stop' between half guard and Cyborg's inverted half game, as I like to throw my leg across to the far hip to control posture and have more leverage to pull the arm free for the finish.

 

[loyalyolayal]

I know the guy on top can hit a far side armbar if you're attempting the kimura when your opponent is in side control but not half guard... I'd have to see what that would look like.

if your partner passes your half guard & you're still grabbing his wrist, he can armbar your arm that went over his shoulder.

 

[seammagear]

Sorry, I realised a lot of the counters mentioned are armbars, that I can time to escape easily. The one I was shown was a kimura from top, he cranked my shoulder back the other way. Was wondering more about escaping that one.

But yeah, just brought it up, coz it seemed kinda weird to be told not to attempt it anymore as it's too dangerous.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Funny how things go in waves. Guys at my gym started doing this kimura again and so I've been getting to do a lot of armbars.

I know the guy on top can hit a far side armbar if you're attempting the kimura when your opponent is in side control but not half guard... I'd have to see what that would look like.

While you're attempting it from half you're getting passed, rather than getting armbared from half.

 

[UpaLoompa]

I know several blacks and browns at my gym who use it frequently, BTW.

Me too but even they have to be careful against competent opponents and be ready to bail on it if need be. A lot of guys that aren't as experienced get really dogged about a technique and that's why they're getting armbarred.

 

[Hellboy31]

Funny how things go in waves. Guys at my gym started doing this kimura again and so I've been getting to do a lot of armbars.



While you're attempting it from half you're getting passed, rather than getting armbared from half.

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