Media Khabib and Tony both triangling wrestlers to secure championship victory

[Peli]

Justin is not an elite mma wrestler nor was he ever close to be one in his entire life

I disagree. Well, sorta. I think many in his division will have trouble taking him down and holding him down. The only one I can see doing it is maybe gillespie because of his gas tank and his grappling skills and how he's adapted it to mma. But he'd lose in the standup. I don't think michael chandler could have his way wrestling with gaethje. He will gas

 

[faustian]

Beat a champ for the belt. Meant reigning champ.

Neither did Khabib in that case

Again tho my point is that peak Ferg never had the opportunity to beat a champ for the belt because Conor completely hijacked the division. My argument is that Tony's interim belt at that point was the de facto undisputed belt because Conor was refusing to defend (and eventually got stripped without defending anyways)

April 1st 2018: Ferg got injured and then stripped of the interim belt after less than 6 months
April 7th 2018: Conor is officially stripped of the undisputed belt

Conor should've been stripped way before that when it was announced he was fighting Mayweather

 

[Peli]

Neither did Khabib in that case

Again tho my point is that peak Ferg never had the opportunity to beat a champ for the belt because Conor completely hijacked the division. My argument is that Tony's interim belt at that point was the de facto undisputed belt because Conor was refusing to defend (and eventually got stripped without defending anyways)

Khabib beat the Lineal Champion, which was mcgregor, but I agree Tony should have been the champion. He was the defacto champ in my eyes. I'll never hold him not winning an undisputed title if he never wins one due to the circumstances.

 

[faustian]

Khabib beat the Lineal Champion, which was mcgregor, but I agree Tony should have been the champion. He was the defacto champ in my eyes. I'll never hold him not winning an undisputed title if he never wins one due to the circumstances.

Yup same here. My ninja edit from previous post:

April 1st 2018: Ferg got injured and then stripped of the interim belt after less than 6 months
April 7th 2018: Conor is officially stripped of the undisputed belt

Conor should've been stripped way before that when it was announced he was fighting Mayweather

Conor boxed Mayweather late August of 2017. The belt that Ferg won in Oct 2017 should've been the vacated undisputed belt. It's like the UFC did everything possible to avoid acknowledging Ferg as the legit champ

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

Name me one other GOAT who's never been a champion?

Hendo if you're only counting UFC's belts. But truthfully you're right, sucks for Tony but all other goats enjoyed great periods of undisputed status

 

[Peli]

Hendo if you're only counting UFC's belts. But truthfully you're right, sucks for Tony but all other goats enjoyed great periods of undisputed status

they never had conor to hold up the division at the time they were active lol

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

they never had conor to hold up the division at the time they were active lol

When you're right you're right lol.
Personally I do consider Tony a former world champion, but if someone were to counter argue that he doesn't have the accolades required, I would consider that a fair take.

 

[Peli]

When you're right you're right lol

We can't pretend that Tony isn't better than various 1 time LW champs, Pettis, RDA, Eddie at his prime.

This is like saying Allen Iverson isn't as good as some middle of the pack allstar Point Guard because Allen Iverson didn't win an NBA championship and that allstar did.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

We can't pretend that Tony isn't better than various 1 time LW champs, Pettis, RDA, Eddie at his prime.

This is like saying Allen Iverson isn't as good as some middle of the pack allstar because Allen Iverson didn't win an NBA championship and that allstar did.

I added more to my reply for context. I'm in total agreement with you in my personal considerations, but I acknowledge that there is at least a fair argument to be made against him.
A win in a title bout qualifies you as a world champion to me.

 

[hswrestler]

What will it take for Gaethje to surpass Ferguson given that he already has a h2h win over him. A belt and wins against Conor and Dustin?

 

[Peli]

What will it take for Gaethje to surpass Ferguson given that he already has a h2h win over him. A belt and wins against Conor and Dustin?

a decent win streak, one that probably includes former world champions. doesn't have to be 12. Just have to be great quality wins. Tony is his only quality win. People was going goo-goo over this guy winstreak but imo, it was mediocre.

Congrats on beating cowboy cerrone who was just beat by tony before gaethje faced him and middle of the pack barboza. You can say barboza was a quality win. I won't take too much issue with that, So Tony and barboza out of 4. James vick and cowboy were meh

 

[pick999]

He's never won the belt. That's huge. If they have a LW tournament for the vacant belt and he comes out on top he's top 3 for me. But you can't be a GOAT if you've never been champ.

They didn't want to give it to tony.

 

[EndlessCritic]

It's a treat to see triangles pulled off in modern mma. If you roll even a little, you know how tricky the proper application can be to execute. But at the elite level? Pure magic

This is true of every technique which exists.

 

[agibmxmma]

Resumes matter more than belts imo

Quality of wins should matter, belts are politics

How many top five wins does Ferguson have? How many losses to non Champs does he have? Since you say resumes matter more. Quality of wins.. so getting almost finished or beat up, in many of his wins over non top 5 opponents, is a "quality" win?

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

This is true of every technique which exists.

Fair enough

 

[kenetics]

Easiest subs to catch wrestlers are rear naked chokes, guillotine, triangles and heelhooks. Bjj is wrestling kryptonite when it's just pure grappling.

 

[Peli]

Easiest subs to catch wrestlers are rear naked chokes, guillotine, triangles and heelhooks. Bjj is wrestling kryptonite when it's just pure grappling.

Smooth like butter baby. I should have included chael getting triangled but but he's not a lw.

 

[Bilzerian]

Who call the paranoia as LW GOAT?

 

[jk7707]

a decent win streak, one that probably includes former world champions. doesn't have to be 12. Just have to be great quality wins. Tony is his only quality win. People was going goo-goo over this guy winstreak but imo, it was mediocre.

Congrats on beating cowboy cerrone who was just beat by tony before gaethje faced him and middle of the pack barboza. You can say barboza was a quality win. I won't take too much issue with that, So Tony and barboza out of 4. James vick and cowboy were meh

Are you serious? Gaethje never got a gimme fight in his entire UFC career. Tony had a longer win streak but if you're trying to weight it by quality of competition Gaethje wins all day every day especially considering he destroyed Tony.

 

[Genisys]

Easiest subs to catch wrestlers are rear naked chokes, guillotine, triangles and heelhooks. Bjj is wrestling kryptonite when it's just pure grappling.

Couldn’t agree more. Pure wrestling is shit compared to BJJ. A good wrestler can take a good BJJ practitioner down at will to only get submitted. A good wrestler with excellent BJJ is always going to be at the top of the food chain with even average striking skills. Wrestling is king in modern MMA, but it must be complimented with good knowledge of BJJ.