Kenny Florian says BJJ is the best base for MMA.

NoSmilez said:
Khabib was at K dojo? It's red storm team or whatever red fury something. It is pretty much first wave of Russians in the UFC and Bellator earlier this decade. A lot of the Russian guys went to ATT after that place. Khabib went to AKA because of King Mo.

Rdojo is Sambo Steve's guy.
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You're right. He was at K dojo, good catch. RDOJO is Reilly Bodycomb who is pretty legit. Met a few guys from there and they're grappling is solid overall
 
Nothing better than being able to determine where the fight takes place.

Wrestling>>>>>>>>BJJ>>>>>>>>>Striking
 
Fioretti said:
69% career TDD rate

77% career TD rate

Facts. You need some ice? Diaper change?
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zero percent win rate against other "technical" MMA strikers.

zero perent win rate against truly complete fighters.

zero percent win rate against lightweight ufc wash outs

100% rate of the division being widely considered garbage during his run. 16% win rate once the division improved

100% rate of the opponents he beat being tailor made for his gatekeeper crusher style

probable 100% rate of him being a jucied cheater during his run. 16% win rate post usada

put the cheat sheets away and see how well you do
 
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NoSmilez said:
I will go against the grain and say steal a kid training Wushu for their flexibility and cardio then build from there. This video is covered by the weird shitty music but most of the stuff is straight up child abuse if you can find the original clips especially the stretching ones. They just get the kid and force them into flexible positions. They run few kms and do exercises all day for 6 hours a day. These little kids don't go home and they get beaten if they don't follow the rules or get the technique right. It's just for the sake of learning forms so they can do performance art. The teenage failures go to learn Sanda.


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Incredible! Almost unreal!
 
snugglecakes said:
That means theres nothing to argue about cause i'm right... You're literally trying to say anderson is a good wrestler.. almost nobody thinks that... now go on and make more racist and or prejudice statements n laugh at your own unfunny jokes like an 8 year old some more
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Fellow fighters, including GSP, give credit to Silva.
Here we have a massive incel pretending to say otherwise in a karate forum. With your 11 years old style and your simpleton, embarassing arguments. Have a bit of respect for yourself.
 
I would argue there is no background that clearly stands above all else.

And what do we mean with best base? Is it a matter of technical background or best environment for forming the mental makeup of a future aspiring mma fighter? And clearly these two factors depend on where you live. Early teenage judo in Russia, France and Japan might be much tougher and high level than in Canada. Boxing in Cuba and America could very well be more technical than if you start boxing in Africa.
Some sports might be very suitable as a background but the sport is not widely popular and therefor the competitive pressure and also the level of coaching is lower. The best background is also individual, Khabib's genetics clearly make him a grappler. Sambo, wrestling and judo are much better background for him than boxing. And talking about Khabib, he is also an indication that cross-training from a rather early age might be the best,

If we are to focus only on the technical aspects of an average person I suggest this ranking of backgrounds:

1. Sanda.

The distance and stance is reminding of MMA. You fight generally on the outside but depending on your game plan and reach you might want to enter the boxing range or go for a takedown. No long grappling exchanges are allowed but you will see throws, trips and single legs. A child or young teenager will learn a lot of body coordination that will translate well into MMA.

2. Combat Sambo/Sambo

A next to perfect storm of takedowns, quick submissions and punches. The grappling is somewhat GI-dependent but the trips, double legs and single legs make up for it. It is my belief it is better to focus on takedowns and achieving a dominant position than learning all the complexities of BJJ early on.

3. Greco-roman

MMA is fought standing up and not bent over. With greco you are likely to dominate the clinch and the wallgame.

4. Kickboxing. Strong fundamentals will get you far. Sure there are no takedowns and some muay thai moves are not allowed but the focus on hands and a stance more similiar mma will make up for it. The aspiring mma fighter should not start grappling too late. There are exceptions like Izzy or Alistair.

5. No GI-jiujitsu. Despite berimbolo and butt scooting it contains tons of mma fundamentals which you need to learn in one stage or another.


I think the key to success is to start in one sport at a young age(10-13, or younger) and then slowly starting training a complementary art some years later. Then you want to start having MMA amateur fights at 18 if not earlier if your country/state allows those competitions. In american setting this could mean that you do folkstyle but in your year junior you to start exploring kickboxing and start having some fights in your last year. In Russia you might start out in kids sambo but in your mid teens you introduce boxing or kickboxing and learn the fundamentals+get some competitive experience.
 
Tentacle said:
I would argue there is no background that clearly stands above all else.

And what do we mean with best base? Is it a matter of technical background or best environment for forming the mental makeup of a future aspiring mma fighter? And clearly these two factors depend on where you live. Early teenage judo in Russia, France and Japan might be much tougher and high level than in Canada. Boxing in Cuba and America could very well be more technical than if you start boxing in Africa.
Some sports might be very suitable as a background but the sport is not widely popular and therefor the competitive pressure and also the level of coaching is lower. The best background is also individual, Khabib's genetics clearly make him a grappler. Sambo, wrestling and judo are much better background for him than boxing. And talking about Khabib, he is also an indication that cross-training from a rather early age might be the best,

If we are to focus only on the technical aspects of an average person I suggest this ranking of backgrounds:

1. Sanda.

The distance and stance is reminding of MMA. You fight generally on the outside but depending on your game plan and reach you might want to enter the boxing range or go for a takedown. No long grappling exchanges are allowed but you will see throws, trips and single legs. A child or young teenager will learn a lot of body coordination that will translate well into MMA.

2. Combat Sambo/Sambo

A next to perfect storm of takedowns, quick submissions and punches. The grappling is somewhat GI-dependent but the trips, double legs and single legs make up for it. It is my belief it is better to focus on takedowns and achieving a dominant position than learning all the complexities of BJJ early on.

3. Greco-roman

MMA is fought standing up and not bent over. With greco you are likely to dominate the clinch and the wallgame.

4. Kickboxing. Strong fundamentals will get you far. Sure there are no takedowns and some muay thai moves are not allowed but the focus on hands and a stance more similiar mma will make up for it. The aspiring mma fighter should not start grappling too late. There are exceptions like Izzy or Alistair.

5. No GI-jiujitsu. Despite berimbolo and butt scooting it contains tons of mma fundamentals which you need to learn in one stage or another.


I think the key to success is to start in one sport at a young age(10-13, or younger) and then slowly starting training a complementary art some years later. Then you want to start having MMA amateur fights at 18 if not earlier if your country/state allows those competitions. In american setting this could mean that you do folkstyle but in your year junior you to start exploring kickboxing and start having some fights in your last year. In Russia you might start out in kids sambo but in your mid teens you introduce boxing or kickboxing and learn the fundamentals+get some competitive experience.
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I dont think Allistair is an example of starting grappling late
 
pankrat said:
I dont think Allistair is an example of starting grappling late
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Yeah, I thought he had his MMA debut a few years later than 1999 so I stand corrected. I guess he was 19-21 or something back then so it really isn't late if we also assume he had trained some type of grappling at least a year earlier.

However starting grappling today at that age isn't ideal at must weight classes.
 
Tentacle said:
Yeah, I thought he had his MMA debut a few years later than 1999 so I stand corrected. I guess he was 19-21 or something back then so it really isn't late if we also assume he had trained some type of grappling at least a year earlier.

However starting grappling today at that age isn't ideal at must weight classes.
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He started grappling when he picked up MMA as a teenager, under the influence of his brother Valentin, who was a pretty profficient grappler for the time submitting Randy Couture among others.

Alistair in his early fights had a pretty grappling oriented game actually.

I'd say there are plenty of better examples, especially among mma fighters that stand out for their striking.
 
Yeap just look at all the UFC champs with a BJJ background!
Ngannou - nope
Gane - nope
Jan - nope
Israel - nope
Usman - nope
Olivera - yes (won title with strikes)
Volkanovski - nope
Nunes - yes (wins fights via striking)
Peter Yan/Sterling - nope
Schevchenkon - nope
Moreno - yes, won belt by sub
Rose - no

Out of all chanpions, 3 have a bjj background, and one used a bjj technique to win the title. I agree bjj is useful to know but striking and takedown defense is far superior in every way
 
If you cant get a fighter down it is useless. Just look at Maia, if he cant take them down he loses.
 
snugglecakes said:
zero percent win rate against other "technical" MMA strikers.

zero perent win rate against truly complete fighters.

zero percent win rate against lightweight ufc wash outs

100% rate of the division being widely considered garbage during his run. 16% win rate once the division improved

100% rate of the opponents he beat being tailor made for his gatekeeper crusher style

probable 100% rate of him being a jucied cheater during his run. 16% win rate post usada

put the cheat sheets away and see how well you do
Click to expand...

 
As a guy who took my first mma fight as a very good purple belt with 4 years of Bjj, went up against an athletic boxer with a good sprawl and good grappling defense. I can attest to the quote about every time a Bjj guy takes a punch to the face his skills diminish one belt lower. Basically Frank Mir vs Ian Freeman-esque.
 
Fioretti said:
GOAT
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you left out.. usada violations... 2.. once a roid cheat, always was a roid cheat. Everything he has ever accomplished has been discredited
here i'll do your predictable counter argument for you."but but but the leg break but but everyone else was roided too so its okay"
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/does-a-failed-drug-test-matter-in-the-goat-discussion.3756593/

silva-weidman.gif
 
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snugglecakes said:
you left out.. usada violations... 2.. once a roid cheat, always was a roid cheat.
here i'll do your predictable counter argument for you."but but but the leg break but but everyone else was roided too so its okay"
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/does-a-failed-drug-test-matter-in-the-goat-discussion.3756593/
Click to expand...

 
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