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Karate in the Olympics?

HumanSadness said:
The two guys winning a championship over a DQ is a major similarity.
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Nope, a guy was genuinely KOed and left cold as dead, the other guy made a big acting, was Aljo hurt? Could be or not, was the karate guy hurt? Definitely
 
Paolo Delutis said:
They ruined karate by doing it this way...


It supposed to be touch contact only...which is retarded ..they are encouraged to not hit hard during a martial art match or face a hit too hard penalty..

Which happened here ...


The Olympics got it sooo wrong here...it was hard to watch and take seriously with the running and jumping away between shots and screaming

Should of been closer to combat karate or. Kyokushin karate style competitions
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Kyokushin’s ruleset is just as retarded as this ...
 
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Well, I for one enjoyed karate at the olympics, especially the 75 kg category with Aghayev and Busa - some really good matches and a fitting end to a decade long rivalry with them meeting in the final. I agree that the rules should allow a bit more contact and more should be required before they take a point away - I think it's because this is the first time karate is at the Olympics and the Olympic committee absolutely does NOT want anything resembling mma under their watch.

You have to think of the fights under this ruleset as akin to fencing - it's about reading your opponent, getting the timing and striking first, not about destroying him. It's far from mma, but it's still a useful skill and exciting to watch if you understand what's going on.


(couldn't find a video of the final between Busa and Aghayev, so here's an older matchup, showing the sport in a better light - some very high level stuff on display)

The disqualification from that headkick was number one bullshit, though, and I'm glad I didn't watch that live.
 
listrahtes said:
Now come on its not perfect yes but a lot better than this silly stuff. Like i wrote, K1 rules would be best to include all striking wih kicks ma
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Kyokushin Is pretty bad ... that phone box style fighting they promote , without fear of taking a punch to head is highly unrealistic, and probably teaches you more bad habits than the point fighting style

yes I am in agreement, K1 style would be far superior
 
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I love fighting and martial arts but couldn't watch that weak version of Karate.
 
Jeff Goldblum69 said:
Kyokushin Is pretty bad ... that phone box style fighting they promote , without fear of taking a punch to head is highly unrealistic, and probably teaches you more bad habits than the point fighting style
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I trained years in point fighting and I will tell you I was utter useless in everything relating to fighting.
I was even more drilled on not making contact with power than some hobo from the street because we would get DQd for that . Our best Karateka who went on to medal internationally got DQd quite often for nothing more than a slapping contact in kumite. The worse part is you feel like Godzilla as long as you stay within your peers and everyone tells you how badass you are. That is contributing to the delusions.

Looking back especially the black belts were more like larpers. Frightened social worker at day, Samurai at night :D

With Kyukushin at least you get the mental preparation for a fight and your body prepared, learn distance control the right way. It is worlds better really. Point fighting looks very flashy but its extremely tough to get all the nonsense out of your system. It took a LOT of time for me to break through that. You have world champs that would get obliterated by any regional mediocre boxer. I agree that Kyukushin is not a good ruleset compared to other full contact sports. I think the one Karate with helmets had an ok ruleset cant remember the name.
 
listrahtes said:
I trained years in point fighting and I will tell you I was utter useless in everything relating to fighting.
I was even more drilled on not making contact with power than some hobo from the street because we would get DQd for that . Our best Karateka who went on to medal internationally got DQd quite often for nothing more than a slapping contact in kumite. The worse part is you feel like Godzilla as long as you stay within your peers and everyone tells you how badass you are. That is contributing to the delusions.

Looking back especially the black belts were more like larpers. Frightened social worker at day, Samurai at night :D

With Kyukushin at least you get the mental preparation for a fight and your body prepared, learn distance control the right way. It is worlds better really. Point fighting looks very flashy but its extremely tough to get all the nonsense out of your system. It took a LOT of time for me to break through that. You have world champs that would get obliterated by any regional mediocre boxer. I agree that Kyukushin is not a good ruleset compared to other full contact sports. I think the one Karate with helmets had an ok ruleset cant remember the name.
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honestly I think the WORST part of kyokushin is the lack of distance management, footwork and headmovement .. yeah, I agree with everything u said about point fighting and it’s ruleset ... but at least on some level those styles of karate have been effective in MMA ( machida, wonderboiiiii, early Conor )

But at the end of the day could just you cut the crap and just do MT or Dutch/MMA kickboxing
 
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@Jeff Goldblum69
You are right about distance control. Never done KK and just looked into some fights. Its really phonebooth fighting. I really thought back in early 2000s that Andy Hug would inspire most Karateka to reform their Kumite and bring it back to the old Okinawan sparring methods which were a lot more in sync with what Andy Hug did.
 
listrahtes said:
@Jeff Goldblum69
You are right about distance control. Never done KK and just looked into some fights. Its really phonebooth fighting. I really thought back in early 2000s that Andy Hug would inspire most Karateka to reform their Kumite and bring it back to the old Okinawan sparring methods which were a lot more in sync with what Andy Hug did.
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100% very sad he died early .. I am also unsure how much sediokaikan differs from kk .. but If Hug is the standard it could have been huge today ...
 
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Jeff Goldblum69 said:
100% very sad he died early .. I am also unsure how much sediokaikan differs from kk .. but If Hug is the standard it could have been huge today .. bringing back that full contact trad Okinawan style ..
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Well, there is Karate Combat now, and Aghayev, who is the white guy fighting here, won silver at the olympics in his weight class last week. As you can see from this video, his 5 world championships in kumite do NOT prevent him from being a very effective fighter: his reactions, distance control and takedowns carry over very well and allow him to beat up a bigger, younger opponent - just like he often does in kumite.

Not saying the ruleset can't be improved, but you guys are being a bit too negative about the application of the point fighting style.
 
Vergilius said:

Well, there is Karate Combat now, and Aghayev, who is the white guy fighting here, won silver at the olympics in his weight class last week. As you can see from this video, his 5 world championships in kumite do NOT prevent him from being a very effective fighter: his reactions, distance control and takedowns carry over very well and allow him to beat up a bigger, younger opponent - just like he often does in kumite.

Not saying the ruleset can't be improved, but you guys are being a bit too negative about the application of the point fighting style.
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Agreed .. I’ve always said point fighting is good for mastering distance management/ reaction time ... I have a problem with Just the Olympic ruleset
 
I know nothing about karate, but DQ'ing a guy for scoring a legit head kick KO seems incredibly stupid and a great way to lose viewers/fans. I don't understand how you're supposed to tap with no power on a snappy head kick and still be fast and unpredictable at the same time, or why that would be desirable anyway. Make them wear tons of heavy padding if that's an issue. Doesn't even TKD allow KO's?

I feel for the guy who won and was given silver. He should go home, say fuck it, and ask a jeweler to dip it in gold. Everything except track & field and weightlifting seems like a joke in the Olympics, inb4 videogames are added as an event.
 
Volador said:
I know nothing about karate, but DQ'ing a guy for scoring a legit head kick KO seems incredibly stupid and a great way to lose viewers/fans. I don't understand how you're supposed to tap with no power on a head kick and still be fast and unpredictable, or why that would be desirable anyway. Make them wear tons of heavy padding if that's an issue. Doesn't even TKD allow KO's? I feel for the guy who won and was given silver. He should go home, say fuck it, and ask a jeweler to dip it in gold.
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As I understand it, KO's were allowed in olympic karate as well as they actually had a ten-count implemented for fighters who were knocked down. Oddly, they at the same time ALSO had a rule banning "excessive force" (meaning light contact to the head was allowed and, I guess, full contact to the body). I honestly think under those rules the call on that kick was a bad call from the judges - the guy who got ko'd was lunging in with a punch and got caught - that can't be blamed on the kicker.
 
Vergilius said:
As I understand it, KO's were allowed in olympic karate as well as they actually had a ten-count implemented for fighters who were knocked down. Oddly, they at the same time ALSO had a rule banning "excessive force" (meaning light contact to the head was allowed and, I guess, full contact to the body). I honestly think under those rules the call on that kick was a bad call from the judges - the guy who got ko'd was lunging in with a punch and got caught - that can't be blamed on the kicker.
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The rules used at the olympics was standard WKF rules as used all over the world for decades. No heavy contact allowed. No KO is allowed.
https://www.wkf.net/pdf/WKF_Competition Rules_2020_EN.pdf

There IS a 10 count, but it has nothing to do with winning. If a fighter is knocked down but gets on his feet within 10s he may go on fighting -provided he gets the ok by the doctor who will be called at the same time as the count starts. If he is on his feet within the time limit the doctors may take up to 3 minutes to check him before the fight have to restart.
If he does not get to his feet within 10s he will not be allowed to fight any more in that tournament (no matter what the doctor says) even if he won that fight by DQ -which does not matter much in the finals, but matters a lot earlier in the tournament.
 
Quinton Overeem said:
I love fighting and martial arts but couldn't watch that weak version of Karate.
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Eh but you should appreciate the form and technique.

Besides, believing you have to get ko’d in sparring for it to beneficial is an antiquated meathead view of training that isn’t borne out by medical science. No touch/semi-contact sparring is more beneficial and healthier in the long run. To each their own but it’s not all or nothing.
 
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