NFL Just How Overrated is Tom Brady?

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Peyton literally ran offenses.
Rodgers made his receivers look like stars
Elway had zero talent on his team and still went to 3 Super Bowls when those teams had no business in the playoffs.

The problem with casual fans is they just count team accomplishments and attribute it solely to the QB.

Montana

Accolades: 4-time Super Bowl champion, 3-time Super Bowl MVP, 2-time MVP, 8 Pro Bowls, 5-time completion percentage leader, 3-time First-Team All-Pro, 2-time passing touchdowns leader, 2-time passer rating leader, Offensive Player of the Year (1989)

Who but Brady on that level?

 

['Rocky']

Montana

Accolades: 4-time Super Bowl champion, 3-time Super Bowl MVP, 2-time MVP, 8 Pro Bowls, 5-time completion percentage leader, 3-time First-Team All-Pro, 2-time passing touchdowns leader, 2-time passer rating leader, Offensive Player of the Year (1989)

Who but Brady on that level?

You're providing a casual fan argument. You and I have been watching football since the Battle of Gettysburg. You should know stats and team accomplishments largely don't mean shit when evaluating individual talent.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

You're providing a casual fan argument. You and I have been watching football since the Battle of Gettysburg. You should know stats and team accomplishments largely don't mean shit when evaluating individual talent.

So we ignore all those accomplismnts and look at..........what?

So it;s....

NFL scout....he has a 70 comp%, a passer rating of 165. and went 35/5 TD/INT ratio.
Owner......so what?

So you put a guy with a terrible comp% and passer rating like Elway above Brady and Montana, dude........you can't be serious.

 

['Rocky']

So we ignore all those accomplismnts and look at..........what?

So it;s....

NFL scout....he has a 70 comp%, a passer rating of 165. and went 35/5 TD/INT ratio.
Owner......so what?

So you put a guy with a terrible comp% and passer rating like Elway above Brady and Montana, dude........you can't be serious.

I'm starting to think you don't actually watch football at all. You clearly spend more time spamming irrelevant stats than actually evaluating game. 70% completion percentage is easy when you don't chuck the ball behind the line of scrimmage in a check down to the RB. This is how the QB position is played today, unlike 30 years ago when you had to actually throw the ball.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

I'm starting to think you don't actually watch football at all. You clearly spend more time spamming irrelevant stats than actually evaluating game. 70% completion percentage is easy when you don't chuck the ball behind the line of scrimmage in a check down to the RB. This is how the QB position is played today, unlike 30 years ago when you had to actually throw the ball.

Dude, you have any idea at all how rare a 70% comp% was pre 2000, ya don't do ya?

Speaking of not actually watching football, only you wouldn't have Brady/Montana the two top QB's. You have seen in this thread that nobody agrees with you,

Tom GOAT Brady and only rookies and know nothings don't get that, same with Montana at number two.

By the way I saw my first NFL game in 1959 how about you? Talk to me about QB, Bill Wade, let me guess......who?

Your hero Elway never had a 64 comp% much less a 70%, hell his career comp% a wimpy 56 something, that is terrible.

 

['Rocky']

Dude, you have any idea at all how rare a 70% comp% was pre 2000, ya don't do ya?

Speaking of not actually watching football, only you wouldn't have Brady/Montana the two top QB's. You have seen in this thread that nobody agrees with you,

Tom GOAT Brady and only rookies and know nothings don't get that, same with Montana at number two.

By the way I saw my first NFL game in 1959 how about you? Talk to me about QB, Bill Wade, let me guess......who?

Your hero Elway never had a 64 comp% much less a 70%, hell his career comp% a wimpy 56 something, that is terrible.

Nice Google work. Plenty of people agree with me. Those who don't have outed themselves as ghey, which you are clearly.

I don't like the cut of yer jib, fella. I watched my first NFL game during the Great Depression see...

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Nice Google work. Plenty of people agree with me. Those who don't have outed themselves as ghey, which you are clearly.

I don't like the cut of yer jib, fella. I watched my first NFL game during the Great Depression see...

Nobody who knows football agrees with you..

Tom Brady is THE GOAT
Montana in second.

Everyone else.

That is how it is, don't care that you can't figure that out.

Remember that Patriots Italian connection talking QB to WR?

How about that 5-7 QB?

 

[Croaker]

Name a QB more impactful than Montana, I gotta see this. Other than Brady.

Michael Vick

he changed the dog fighting game forever

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Michael Vick

he changed the dog fighting game forever

Pretty obvious where and how he was raised fighting dogs was part of the culture he thought nothing of it at all.

Once met a guy who hunted wild hogs with dogs, and all his dogs were all cut up and beat up, he couldn't care less.

A different mind set just like what Vick was exposed to. Do think Vick got a bad deal, his thing was simply ignorance.

I always let my two little dogs out first to rid the yards of any cats hanging around, after 15minish they want to come in, so dogs in my two cats out. They all get the routine.

Jackson passed Vick last season he is now the QB rushing king, then Vick, Cam and Wilson.

 

[tgv976]

He's good, but clearly disappointed he got out right before the ass blasting took off.

 

[Rastas]

He left Stanford MINUS over 200 yards rushing

I've seen you use this statistic before, you do realize in college that sack yardage counts against the individual rushing stats for the QB, right?

Also, please stop using Pro Bowls as a metric for measuring how good a player is. It's absolutely worthless.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

I've seen you use this statistic before, you do realize in college that sack yardage counts against the individual rushing stats for the QB, right?

Also, please stop using Pro Bowls as a metric for measuring how good a player is. It's absolutely worthless.

Points....

Obviously he was no runner in college, a duel threat, nope!

Elway

frosh - 33
soph gained 50
junior - 158
senior -138

That's pretty sad.

Pro bowls tell us that player was among the best at his position that season, so yes it does matter. Tell the players their pro bowl pick was worthless.

A hall of fame QB who never played in a pro bowl, ain't gonna happen.

 

[Rastas]

Pro bowls tell us that player was among the best at his position that season, so yes it does matter. Tell the players their pro bowl pick was worthless.

A hall of fame QB who never played in a pro bowl, ain't

Points....

Obviously he was no runner in college, a duel threat, nope!

Elway

frosh - 33
soph gained 50
junior - 158
senior -138

That's pretty sad.

Pro bowls tell us that player was among the best at his position that season, so yes it does matter. Tell the players their pro bowl pick was worthless.

A hall of fame QB who never played in a pro bowl, ain't gonna happen.

So worthless that they've done away with the game all together, play flag football and basically have a elementary school field day instead. Players probably did care back in the day, especially when it was a paid vacation to Hawaii and I'm sure many players had incentive clauses in their contract tied to making the Pro Bowl. But like the All-Star game in the NBA it declined year after year and players would routinely skip the game giving another player that did not initially make the team a spot on the team and adding another "Pro Bowl year" to their resume

But as an actual measuring stick between great players? No, it meaningless.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

So worthless that they've done away with the game all together, play flag football and basically have a elementary school field day instead. Players probably did care back in the day, especially when it was a paid vacation to Hawaii and I'm sure many players had incentive clauses in their contract tied to making the Pro Bowl. But like the All-Star game in the NBA it declined year after year and players would routinely skip the game giving another player that did not initially make the team a spot on the team and adding another "Pro Bowl year" to their resume

But as an actual measuring stick between great players? No, it meaningless.

So the fact than in a 16 year career a player not once made a pro bowl doesn't send a message?

So the fact a player in a 16 year career made 13 pro bowls doesn't tell us something?

Screw the actual game it's about the honor of being among the best that season,.

Totally disagree with you.

A Hall of Famer who never made a pro bowl will not happen.

Honors, stats, numbers tell us all we need to know about these athletes, the more the better.

Hell, why even time races in track, why have records, yes numbers matters. Awards won matter.

I like to look at all those football trophies it brings back memories. Why even have them?

If you collect football cards you have seen al those numbers on the back, why are they there?

Why does anyone need to know this?

NFL Pro Bowl Selections Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

1. Tom Brady (15), 2. Tony Gonzalez (14), 2. Peyton Manning (14), 2. Bruce Matthews (14), 2. Merlin Olsen (14),

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Tom Brady

More pro bowls than anyone
More Superbowl wins than anyone
More passing TD 's than anyone
More passing yards than anyone
How many NFL MVP;s

Over rated, how?

Who did it better, yep...............NOBODY~~~~~~~~~

 

[Rastas]

Totally disagree with you.

A Hall of Famer who never made a pro bowl will not happen.

Honors, stats, numbers tell us all we need to know about these athletes, the more the better.

Hell, why even time races in track, why have records, yes numbers matters. Awards won matter.

I like to look at all those football trophies it brings back memories. Why even have them?

If you collect football cards you have seen al those numbers on the back, why are they there?

Why does anyone need to know this?

NFL Pro Bowl Selections Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

1. Tom Brady (15), 2. Tony Gonzalez (14), 2. Peyton Manning (14), 2. Bruce Matthews (14), 2. Merlin Olsen (14),

www.pro-football-reference.com

I think the accolade you are looking for is All-Pro. So now that there is no Pro Bowl game what does that mean for the legacy of players in this era? Since Josh Allen won't have the chance to make more Pro Bowls that's a ding on him? What about the years the Pro Bowl was played before the Super Bowl and the players on the SB teams didn't play in the Pro Bowl. Were Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes not "Pro Bowl" QBs in 2021 or were those QBs on the Pro Bowl roster more worth of that "accolade"

As for the rest, no one said any of that, you just can't seem to admit that stats and accolades (even those as meaningless as the Pro Bowl) aren't the whole story. Context matters, eras matter. Of course John Elway has shit rushing stats. That's not what he was asked to do, that's not what offenses were designed to do then.

Anyway, the discussion was about the Pro Bowl being a meaningful accolade. You think it is, I don't. I imagine if we polled people more would be on my side than yours but we can agree to disagree here

 

['Rocky']

The average mentality of someone who thinks Brady is GOAT. Lmao

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

I think the accolade you are looking for is All-Pro. So now that there is no Pro Bowl game what does that mean for the legacy of players in this era? Since Josh Allen won't have the chance to make more Pro Bowls that's a ding on him? What about the years the Pro Bowl was played before the Super Bowl and the players on the SB teams didn't play in the Pro Bowl. Were Tom Brady and Pat Mahomes not "Pro Bowl" QBs in 2021 or were those QBs on the Pro Bowl roster more worth of that "accolade"

As for the rest, no one said any of that, you just can't seem to admit that stats and accolades (even those as meaningless as the Pro Bowl) aren't the whole story. Context matters, eras matter. Of course John Elway has shit rushing stats. That's not what he was asked to do, that's not what offenses were designed to do then.

Anyway, the discussion was about the Pro Bowl being a meaningful accolade. You think it is, I don't. I imagine if we polled people more would be on my side than yours but we can agree to disagree here

All Pro is 100% different so you are wrong.

It's not about a game at all, that should be obvious, it's the honor of being selected as a pro bowler that matters.

All the above totally obvious.

Believe what ya like, I think it's very important to be among those worthy of a pro bowl selection, sure the players appreciate that respect for their play.

If you don't see that, go for it..

After the career is over and the old timer is sharing his days in the NFL, when asked......so how many pro bowls were you selected to, seriously doubt he is cool with.........0. Do think he'd love to say......13,

Kind of a weird world here,....

Tom Brady and Joe Montana both suck, slow rugbyites right there with speedy NFLers, the hell with the pro bowl, it means nothing, despite all his numbers top 15 hell no Russell Wilson might be top 50,,,,,,,hahahahaha~~~~

 

[ASUThermo]

Most accomplishments and most success, probably not the most talented, but who cares.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Most accomplishments and most success, probably not the most talented, but who cares.

His stats/numbers tell us he was plenty talented.