Judo Ne Waza training vs BJJ training

[BreezerD**]

What are the differences in the way Judo ne waza is taught compared to BJJ? Do you guys drill moves in a similar way, or do you have a different method of practicing?

 

[knoxpk]

What are the differences in the way Judo ne waza is taught compared to BJJ? Do you guys drill moves in a similar way, or do you have a different method of practicing?

Well, think about the goals of both arts/sports.

In BJJ you have unlimited time on the mat therefroe you are taught to be more methodical and transition from position to position before exploding to a submission attempt,unless the opp just hands you a gift.

In Judo you have unlimited time and some Judoka prefer not to grapple on the floor. Therefore the Judo newaza training will be more explosive and less subtle IMO. Essentially the goal is to get into a holdown or submission before the ref stands you back up.

To illustrate, when we did Judo newaza we would be paired up with a partner for about 3-5 minutes go or take before we would switch.
In BJJ we would be with the same partner 15-30 minutes give or take before we would switch.

I think both are very good however and if you spend enough time in Judo newaza you will have seen enough armbars and chokes and sweeps to be competetive against some BJJ'rs, plus you have the added bonus of being really really good at slamming the crap out of someone.


Again, it depends on how much time you spend on training ground work.

 

[naptime]

What are the differences in the way Judo ne waza is taught compared to BJJ? Do you guys drill moves in a similar way, or do you have a different method of practicing?

I think a lot of this depends on your club. We did newaza every class, but how we practiced it would differ depending on the day.

Where I was training, it was a mix - half of the time you would start by either throwing your partner poorly on his butt, or throwing him forward poorly into turtle, and then work from there.

the other half of the time we would drill a technique where uke started in turtle - the techniques we drilled were very different from the kind of attack sequences that we drill at BJJ. Generally they would have an interesting entry where you had several submission options, and if they didn't work, you could roll uke over to set up a new sequence of attacks. I think this was largely driven by the judo newaza rules. It set a very different pace from your average BJJ class.

We would generally start sparring from turtle or guard, rather than doing the 'wrestling from knees' that we do at BJJ.

The club I trained at was at a university, and most of the people there were either serious competitors or older people that had been doing judo for a long time. I was just a student who wanted to do some judo. I did find that there was very little emphasis on basic techniques like escaping side control, or basic submissions, though sometimes someone would separate us out and show us some techniques.

 

[dza76wutang]

I've rolled with some Judo guys, but 95% of my rolling is against BJJers.

The Judo guys are usually more explosive and aggressive, as they are not used to unlimited ground time. They have plenty of polish too, but it's not the same calculating and meticulous groundwork of BJJ.

The one thing I really thought was cool and unique to the Judo guys I grappled was how they "crack" someone's turtle. Again, probably a function of time limits, but I got some cool ideas that I added to my repetoire from them.

 

[georgejjr]

I've rolled with some Judo guys, but 95% of my rolling is against BJJers.

The Judo guys are usually more explosive and aggressive, as they are not used to unlimited ground time. They have plenty of polish too, but it's not the same calculating and meticulous groundwork of BJJ.

The one thing I really thought was cool and unique to the Judo guys I grappled was how they "crack" someone's turtle. Again, probably a function of time limits, but I got some cool ideas that I added to my repetoire from them.

This is pretty accurate. BJJ'ers are in general (usual caveats of some judoka being world class on the ground, some BJJ'ers being world class in throwing/takedowns :icon_chee) much more sophisticated and smoother on the ground, but less explosive. The judo top game is actually pretty good, but the bottom game is (usually :icon_chee) much, much weaker than that of BJJ.

And judo clubs drill breaking turtles - its arguably the only thing they're as methodical about on the ground as BJJ'ers are. Any competition judoka (as opposed to recreational judoka) will learn three or four turtle break downs (that can be done in 5-10 seconds tops) and drill them as a series of discrete sets until they're as automatic as a throw. The reason for this is of course how common the turtle is in judo, and the very limited time (rarely get more than ten seconds, often only five :icon_sad you have to break it down.

Its the one aspect of judo groundwork which is more advanced than BJJ groundwork - the BJJ instructor I trade instruction with says he learned all his turtle breakdowns from judo. There never was the same need for them in BJJ, as you have almost unlimited time to break the turtle, so you don't need the same algorithmic approach.

 

[ssssmashing]

This depends too on the style of Judo. Kodokan judo doesn't emphasize groundwork but some other forms do.

 

[pittfrog]

Hmmm, other than Kodokan Judo, what other kinds of Judo are there? I was under the impression that the Kodokan Institute was the practical center of the Judo world. This is reinforced by the fact that it is common for international yudansha(black belt rank judoka) to register their ranks with the Kodokan.

 

[ssssmashing]

Kosen Judo, which is really a sub-style of kodokan has a lot more groundwork.

 

[krellik]

Judo groundwork in my limited experience:

To little of it. (just as to little of takedowns in bjj normaly)

Much turtle. A bit to passive turtle though (since it usually involve waiting for a ref to break it up instead of improving position from it... As said they are good at working against it.

Good at pins. Kesagatame for instance judo guys have a game from, bjj guys oftenly dont.

And yeah pretty explosive...

 

[stu3ufc**]

lol bjj everytime


if you wanna learn how to pin someone and not move for 15 seconds then do that

rolling with judokas is a waste of time

 

[ssssmashing]

lol bjj everytime


if you wanna learn how to pin someone and not move for 15 seconds then do that

rolling with judokas is a waste of time

That may be a bit unfair. They can certainly help with takedowns and takedown defense.

 

[MIGUELOCO]

I've rolled with some Judo guys, but 95% of my rolling is against BJJers.

The Judo guys are usually more explosive and aggressive, as they are not used to unlimited ground time. They have plenty of polish too, but it's not the same calculating and meticulous groundwork of BJJ.

The one thing I really thought was cool and unique to the Judo guys I grappled was how they "crack" someone's turtle. Again, probably a function of time limits, but I got some cool ideas that I added to my repetoire from them.

If you want to learn how to attack the turtle, or pull strait arm bars out of nowhere, learn from judokas.

 

[krellik]

lol bjj everytime


if you wanna learn how to pin someone and not move for 15 seconds then do that

rolling with judokas is a waste of time

thats definitively a point of view rather than a truth.

...An open mind is usually better than a closed one. In my opinion judo guys have some strongpoints on the ground that you can learn from, some of it has its place in mma for instance...

 

[knoxpk]

lol bjj everytime


if you wanna learn how to pin someone and not move for 15 seconds then do that

rolling with judokas is a waste of time

Well this WAS a pretty civil and entertaining thread.


BTW here you go!

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/bibiano-vs-judoka-443251/

 

[nefti]

standing with gi = judo/sambo

groundwork = bjj

simple as that. Shit half the guards that we use in bjj don't exist in judo. Now before people start posting 50 year old vids of old ass judokas showing techniques. Show me the various guards being used in modern judo competiton.

 

[pittfrog]

Kosen Judo, which is really a sub-style of kodokan has a lot more groundwork.

Kosen Judo essentially doesn't exist today(although some claim to have resurrected it). It was a subset of regular competition rules that were used in matches between certain schools in Japan around the turn of the previous century. Kosen Judo's prominence is commonly over-emphasized by BJJ players looking for "t3h re4l" Judo.

 

[knoxpk]

Kosen Judo essentially doesn't exist today(although some claim to have resurrected it). It was a subset of regular competition rules that were used in matches between certain schools in Japan around the turn of the previous century. Kosen Judo's prominence is commonly over-emphasized by BJJ players looking for "t3h re4l" Judo.

That is my understanding as well.

You were taught JUDO but if you wanted to play on the ground more you would play under Kosen Rules.


YouTube - Judo vs. Brazilian Ju Jitsu Groundfighting

YouTube - John Baylon vs Mike Fowler (From Dlsu Judo team)

Again some more vids showing if you mess with the WRONG Judoka you could be surprised.
I admit the results are not typical however it shows that if a Judok devotes time to ne waza they can be very proficient as well.

To assume otherwise is just plain retarded!

 

[nefti]

apparently the guy fromt eh PI was also a brown belt in bjj.

 

[georgejjr]

Kosen Judo essentially doesn't exist today(although some claim to have resurrected it). It was a subset of regular competition rules that were used in matches between certain schools in Japan around the turn of the previous century.

That's what's I've been told by old Japanese sensei as well. Usually with a bit of an eye-roll thrown in - as in "not this question again".

Well this WAS a pretty civil and entertaining thread.

I think there's a rule that no BJJ-judo thread is allowed to go more than ten posts deep without someone insulting either BJJ or judo :icon_twis

 

[Higus]

In my experience, people moving from Judo to BJJ do much better than the other way around. They are able to apply the explosiveness and base they acquired through intense physical training into their ground fighting. People in BJJ have harder habits to break when playing by Judo's rules because the physical stuff is harder to teach. Really, though, the styles compliment each other very well.
Just an opinion