Judo Belt Progression

[Thai Otoshi]

I thought I was told it was 3. The ref signs your book. That's what I'm working on this year.
Making bb in Judo is nice. When ever it happens for me I don't really care. I joke with my sensei I may take 15yrs or more. (Since my Judo is so horrible.)
But, ^ it's always nicer beating bb even if I have to use gorilla judo.

Edit...even if I get 3bb this year I would not want a Judo bb. That is not my goal in itself. The actual skill is, which will take me awhile since I'm a slow learner.

Yeah, I think it's three back-to-back-to-back for shodan, five for nidan, and such.

Onq would be the best person to ask about this, IMO. He's actually done batsugan at the Kodokan.

 

[lechien]

I think they have to be in a row, you have to win by ippon, and you still have to demonstrate Nage no Kata.

Yep. 5 of my mates got their bb that way on last year trip to kodokan.

 

[jujijimmy]

your saying a 1st dan bb in judo has newaza of a bjj purple belt? lol ok whatever

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

your saying a 1st dan bb in judo has newaza of a bjj purple belt? lol ok whatever

No, I said they were competitive. Not the same. I'd say blue would be accurate.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

I don't know, I think it's a decent comparison. This may not be you, but usually when Judo guys say they can hang with BJJ purple belts what they mean is they can hunker down in closed guard and not get swept or submitted, which is basically just avoiding the fight from a BJJ perspective. I imagine a lot of BJJ purple belts could avoid getting thrown if they were just super defensive, didn't let you get the grips, basically just didn't try to do Judo. Also, most BJJ guys who have some standup it's more likely to be wrestling than Judo, so I think most BJJ purples would do better standing in a more open rule set where leg attacks are allowed and ippon is de-emphasized relative to just getting your opponent to the ground. Judo has a much more restrictive rule set in general than BJJ so it's less likely that a non-cross training BJJ guy is going to have a skill set that works well under Judo's restrictive rules.

I totally get what you're saying, I think the biggest problem is it varies on a case by base basis.

Oh and for the record, I don't just sit in guard with guys at BJJ. I've had a few passes on purples and they weren't going easy on me because they get frustrated or sigh/laugh as I pass. It's not a regular thing by any means but it's happened a few times that I can't really count it as a fluke.

 

[jujijimmy]

No, I said they were competitive. Not the same. I'd say blue would be accurate.

i mainly roll with old judo black belts who are way pass their prime. the younger ones all cross train in bjj and also hold blue belts. its impossible to compare belt colours as i have rolled with some rubbish judo bb and bjj blues so its a pointless comparison. as
a roll judo guys are tough and aggressive and prefer to be on top. they are not as well rounded as bjj guys and normally have poor submissions off their back.

 

[Marbig]

I like QingTian's belt criteria but I find it rarely doesn't work out like this.

Most judo black belts I've rolled with are not blue belt level, especially the younger ones. The older black belts have crushing top games but no guard knowledge...not even the basic ways of breaking open someone's closed guard or how to pull anything other than closed guard themselves (and even then there is too much space). I don't mean any disrespect but I think BJJ and judo has deviated too much from each other that you can't exclusively train one and also expect to know the other. To that end, I've seen BJJ blue belts who won't even be yellows in judo.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

i mainly roll with old judo black belts who are way pass their prime. the younger ones all cross train in bjj and also hold blue belts. its impossible to compare belt colours as i have rolled with some rubbish judo bb and bjj blues so its a pointless comparison. as
a roll judo guys are tough and aggressive and prefer to be on top. they are not as well rounded as bjj guys and normally have poor submissions off their back.

I'd agree with you.





But I do have nice juji gatames

 

[QingTian]

I like QingTian's belt criteria but I find it rarely doesn't work out like this.

Most judo black belts I've rolled with are not blue belt level, especially the younger ones. The older black belts have crushing top games but no guard knowledge...not even the basic ways of breaking open someone's closed guard or how to pull anything other than closed guard themselves (and even then there is too much space). I don't mean any disrespect but I think BJJ and judo has deviated too much from each other that you can't exclusively train one and also expect to know the other. To that end, I've seen BJJ blue belts who won't even be yellows in judo.

I was more making a rough comparison of ground grappling skill in their respective rulesets. Judoka will have better pins and turtle game, whereas BJJers will do much better with guard. However I disagree that they don't cross over.

It just takes some adjustments. When I first went to BJJ open mat, I had no idea about DLR, inverted guard, all that weird BJJ stuff. I also noticed everyone liked to pull guard. Very different from Judo. So early on I had trouble, even sometimes with whites. Sure, it looked bad.

But then about 10 sessions later, I had no problems with whites and started tapping the blues. Then about 10 sessions later I went toe to toe with purples and tapped some.

It really was just about examining some techniques I didn't know, and learning how to adjust my strengths. I don't know how to do fancy guard work, but I can pass guard and pin. All I needed to know which I didn't have to know in Judo was transition pins to subs. Easy peasy - actually BJJ people can be easier to sub from a pin, as Judoka make you work to keep the pin.

So there, I meet my own standards, hohoho. A BJJ black said I was at least a purple and so I should wear a purple instead of white belt next time. I did come from a newaza heavy club though.

 

[ragreynolds]

I think that in New Zealand you have to score 10 wins in competition against a shodan in order to earn a shodan.

Other option is to travel to the kodokan and win 3 matches to earn your shodan.

Here there are two grading systems. One is the Mon grading system, which requires you to demonstrate pre-determined techniques, which you are then scored on by an assessor. There are three Mons per belt colour, each adds a strip to your belt. Usually you'd be graded maybe 4 or 5 times per year, sometimes more, depending on when your instructor deems you ready. This is probably the easiest way to progress, although it does take longest.

The second way is known as the Kyu grading system. With the Kyu grading system, it's all about getting wins in competition. You need a certain amount of points to get to your next belt, and with a good showing, you could advance a belt each time you go to competition, meaning that within a year, or two, you could have your black belt, so long as you regularly compete.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

Mon is the junior grading system over here whilst kyu is for seniors.

 

[Kbits]

Mon is the junior grading system over here whilst kyu is for seniors.

Australia also

 

[ShindoNinja]

I know what he meant but I'm just not sure I agree with it.

As a shodan I can hold my own with some purples, beat some whilst getting annihilated by others. I doubt any would be able to do the same standing without cross training in something.

Therefore, is purple really the same skill level as shodan? My point is that if someone who trains in a different, albeit similar sport but can be competitive with you then surely if you can't do the same in theirs then a shodan isn't roughly equivalent to a purple?

I understand what you mean, they're both on similar steps on the ladder in their respective sports but I'd argue that a shodan is slightly above a purple.

Edit: I suppose it goes back to judo being 70-30 standup to ground whilst in BJJ you can be 0-100 if you always pull guard.

IMO the added groundwork in with judo puts it that little bit higher. If you were to only include judo tachiwaza vs BJJ groundwork then I'd totally agree.

I agree with this. There is also a difference between, as a shodan, holding your own with effective techniques vs. knowing as many techniques as a purple in BJJ. I think a good Judo black belt can hold their own with a BJJ purple based on their explosive grappling style and strength but they don't have the flow of a purple belt in BJJ or have the same repertoire of techniques.

How many judo shodans use berimbolo, dela riva or even x guard? Sure there are some but not many unless they cross train.

Conversely most BJJ purples have a poor takedown game even compared to a Judo Blue belt. Doesn't mean they can't take guys down but they have probably learned a couple go to techniques and they don't set them up in any way compared to a Judo Shodan.

A safe generalization that seems pretty true in my experience is that a Judo shodan has BJJ blue level skills on the ground. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[ragreynolds]

Mon is the junior grading system over here whilst kyu is for seniors.

Here, anyone can be graded with Mon, but only adults can be graded with Kyu.

 

[Gorbag]

A safe generalization that seems pretty true in my experience is that a Judo shodan has BJJ blue level skills on the ground. There is nothing wrong with that.

Under BJJ rules maybe, but groundwork in judo have different rules, so its apples and oranges anyway

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

Under BJJ rules maybe, but groundwork in judo have different rules, so its apples and oranges anyway

 

[JudokaUK]

What do you consider for each belt level in Judo? Here's mine:

White-Green (0-3 years):
These are beginner levels, where you collect techniques and tidbits of principles. You otherwise are cannon fodder for everyone else, including each other. Between white and green, your fighting ability is random like rock paper scissors, so anything can happen. You feel like anything can happen, so you are tense and scared. At this level your goal is to try out techniques to find ones you like, and learn ukemi. Lots of ukemi.

Ahh damn, I'd better return my dan grade certificate, I got mine in under 2 years.

But seriously, I think the big pieces missing here are how much actual mat time you spend depending on what stage in life you're at and quaiity of instruction.

If, like me, you restarted Judo at university you had enough free time to train 4-5 times per week for a year, which is probably the same amount of time as someone who trains 1-2 times per week for a couple of years. And you were lucky enough to have really good coaches and access to good quality adult training partners. This makes a world of difference from having unskillful tug arounds with 40 year old orange belts, which is what most adult beginners do.

This is also the big gap between Judo and BJJ, BJJ has lots of high quality coaches and mats full of good quality adult training partners.

Judo is awash with appalingly poor coaches and very low quality adult training partners.

Unless there's a very radical change in how Judo is coached and trained in the Anglophone world BJJ will totally eclipse it, when it comes to good coaches producing good adult practitioners in the next few years, let alone decades.

 

[QingTian]

You're right about the years. I didn't think that one through enough and should have done mat hours instead. Also I now think I front loaded the years too much and dan grades should have more gap maybe. I was a bit biased because I didn't get my BB until 7-8 years.

I didn't know BJJ was taking over in the UK as well. I thought the UK had a strong Judo tradition, but that's too bad to hear.

 

[JudokaUK]

You're right about the years. I didn't think that one through enough and should have done mat hours instead. Also I now think I front loaded the years too much and dan grades should have more gap maybe. I was a bit biased because I didn't get my BB until 7-8 years.

If you start at 9 or 10, then I don't think 7 or 8 years is unrealistic. If you start at 18 at a good club, then, I think it is.

I didn't know BJJ was taking over in the UK as well. I thought the UK had a strong Judo tradition, but that's too bad to hear.

Not necessarily that it's taking over, but in terms of high quality instruction and youth participation (under 30s, but over 18s), BJJ far outstrips Judo by several orders of magnitude. Especially in the big cities, Birmingham (non-Muslim zones only ala Fox News) and London, from personal experience.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

Ahh damn, I'd better return my dan grade certificate, I got mine in under 2 years.

But seriously, I think the big pieces missing here are how much actual mat time you spend depending on what stage in life you're at and quaiity of instruction.

If, like me, you restarted Judo at university you had enough free time to train 4-5 times per week for a year, which is probably the same amount of time as someone who trains 1-2 times per week for a couple of years. And you were lucky enough to have really good coaches and access to good quality adult training partners. This makes a world of difference from having unskillful tug arounds with 40 year old orange belts, which is what most adult beginners do.

This is also the big gap between Judo and BJJ, BJJ has lots of high quality coaches and mats full of good quality adult training partners.

Judo is awash with appalingly poor coaches and very low quality adult training partners.

Unless there's a very radical change in how Judo is coached and trained in the Anglophone world BJJ will totally eclipse it, when it comes to good coaches producing good adult practitioners in the next few years, let alone decades.

Nice to see you posting. Your threads are awesome.

From my experience, unless you're at bath uni or something then the judo clubs tend to be a lower level than at hobbyist clubs.

Out of a club of probably 40-50 people it's basically noob practise day in randori for me at the uni.