Social Joy Reid Defends Books with :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia in Public School Librairies

[PhitePhan]

Well, if I think it's borderline impossible for writing to be pornographic, then exposing kids to "pornographic writing" becomes a completely theoretical concern, with the ensuing supposed harm equally theoretical. Doesn't seem like a strong case for as invasive a measure as banning.

Yes, if you refuse to acknowledge reality then you can make up any justifications you want for kids being exposed to sexually explicit materials… you’ve broken the code, congrats!

 

[Rob Battisti]

A shame. You could've been having an argument with someone who agrees with parts of your position, but not all of it.

Well, there was too much shit flinging from those who want graphic sexual content in schools with no oversight from the community so it was pointless to stay.

 

[brothir]

Gov't wasn't necessary at all in this case until the left started pushing for children to have access to inappropriate material.

"The left" hasn't been pushing for that. Nobody wants children to have access to material they consider inappropriate, it's that people disagree on the exact nature of what's inappropriate, as well as whether banning is justified. That's individuals, with individual opinions. Not "the left".

 

[RoastBeast]

you think teaching kid "if it feels good it's not assault" is intelligent?

Not using the public school system to teach kids about molestation is intelligent.

Go please go on and tell us more about how molestation can feel good for kids and still be a bad thing for them.

 

[brothir]

Yes, if you refuse to acknowledge reality then you can make up any justifications you want for kids being exposed to sexually explicit materials… you’ve broken the code, congrats!

And if you arbitrarily overextend the boundaries of what's sexually explicit as well as what counts as "kids", you've equally broken the code. Is it so hard to understand that the precise details are important here?

 

[Sinister]

This is it 100%. And it hints at another answer to the question that Rob couldn't answer--why should positions on the issue map to the left/right spectrum, though it's more liberal/illiberal (i.e., do you take your instinct to be undeniable Truth or do you think we should use sound reasoning and examine evidence before claiming to know something?).

I was listening to a piece on hierarchies and it talked a lot about the socio-political interest of keeping kids in a certain place based on where you want them to end up. Peoples political (and religious) ideologies which determine how much autonomy they're willing to give kids, which then translates into trust or distrust of institutions which aren't based on a parent's specific ideologies. It's not specific to the religious right, I've also seen it in lefties who are willing to espouse authoritarianism. Both feel that their children are not their own individuals capable of independent thought or feeling, but rather that their thoughts and feelings MUST be guided towards the ideologies that the parents have fashioned for themselves.

It's weird to see places push for book bans because they feel the subject matter is "too mature" for kids (and let's be honest, they were never going to limit it to elementary aged kids because now its ALL kids), simultaneously roll back labor protections. It's not ok to read a memoir with a graphic depiction of a sexual or violent act, but it is ok to work a factory or construction job where the likelihood of getting maimed is significantly higher. It's not ok to ponder sexuality, it is ok to have to memorize and abide by building code guidelines, various codes of conduct for private businesses, etc. Become tougher by working more hours on school nights, but definitely not by standing up for yourself if you feel the yourself you are is different than your parents think it should be.

 

[Sinister]

Not using the public school system to teach kids about molestation is intelligent.

Go please go on and tell us more about how molestation can feel good for kids and still be a bad thing for them.

This is so hilarious.

Literally making a case to NOT teach kids about molestation by any means possible, and yet opposing this viewpoint gets you labeled a disgusting weirdo.

Youd make predators smile with this crap.

 

[brothir]

I always thought of myself as a liberal my entire life. Literally have never voted Republican - my entire life.
Bunch of weirdo fucks like some of you people make me seem like some neocon Bible thumper or some shit.
It's common fucking sense not to have buttsex, dildos, philia and incest in books for elementary school kids.
WTF is wrong with some of you retards?
Never go full retard.

Haven't seen anyone arguing that that stuff should be in elementary school libraries. The argument I make is that books shouldn't be banned, and schools should use their judgment that that stuff is largely inappropriate for elementary school and not have them in their libraries.

 

[PhitePhan]

And if you arbitrarily overextend the boundaries of what's sexually explicit as well as what counts as "kids", you've equally broken the code. Is it so hard to understand that the precise details are important here?

All Boys Aren’t Blue includes sexually graphic passages, including:

“He reached his hand down and pulled out my d**k. He quickly went to giving me h**d. I just sat back and enjoyed it as I could tell he was, too.”

The passage continued: “He didn’t know I was a virgin, and I did my best to act dominant like my favorite porn star.”

We have at least two posters claiming this content is appropriate for 9 years old (puberty age) and up.

 

[shockaholic12]

Not using the public school system to teach kids about molestation is intelligent.

Go please go on and tell us more about how molestation can feel good for kids and still be a bad thing for them.

Right because kids, who often are victims or their own family, are learning it all at home from the people victimizing them. Derp.

If it's not consensual it's bad. If it causes mental harm although the sensation at the time wasn't painful, it's bad. If they were manipulated into doing it, it's bad. If it's done to them by an adult, it's bad.

Do you have a concussion or something?

 

[Jack V Savage]

i think in cases like zoophilia, philia and the like it's ok to use instinct and not attempt to do research.

We're talking about books, though.

I’m not on the right.

You mean because you're more partisan than ideological?

 

[Seano]

You can't teach kids about sexual abuse without graphic stories of being plowed with a strap on, guys! Come on!

 

[RoastBeast]

Not having sex ed in schools is a disaster. Adolescents aren't supposed to learn about their bodies undergoing puberty, and not learn about how to have sex responsibly? Or that homosexuality and the like is even a thing?

Standard sex ed is fine. This stuff is way beyond standard sex ed. Having kids read stories about incestual molestation is not appropriate for the public school system. The way sex ed has been taught for years has been perfectly acceptable by society but now liberals want to make it more sexually explicit and available to younger and younger children. You've got guys in this very thread wanting 9 year olds to read stories about incestual molestation to "educate" them.

"The left" hasn't been pushing for that. Nobody wants children to have access to material they consider inappropriate, it's that people disagree on the exact nature of what's inappropriate, as well as whether banning is justified. That's individuals, with individual opinions. Not "the left".

We didn't used to disagree on whether or not this type of material was inappropriate. The left has moved the overton window from standard gray areas of inappropriateness to now thinking that we need to have a discussion on whether books with depictions of blowjobs and books talking about how pleasurable incestual molestation can feel to be in children's libraries.

I'm not saying the entire left is behind this but ONLY left wingers are behind it. If you aren't behind it as well, then you should start speaking out against left wingers but it seems like you are in position to defend them instead.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's weird to see places push for book bans because they feel the subject matter is "too mature" for kids (and let's be honest, they were never going to limit it to elementary aged kids because now its ALL kids)

I don't think there's any reason to think they'd limit it to kids at all. As I alluded to earlier, it wasn't that long ago that magazine editors were arrested for publishing parts of Ulysses, and the book was banned in the U.S. for almost 15 years. I don't generally worry about slippery slopes too much, but I think a return of that kind of thing is clearly the end game with this push.

 

[shockaholic12]

Standard sex ed is fine. This stuff is way beyond standard sex ed. Having kids read stories about incestual molestation is not appropriate for the public school system. The way sex ed has been taught for years has been perfectly acceptable by society but now liberals want to make it more sexually explicit and available to younger and younger children. You've got guys in this very thread wanting 9 year olds to read stories about incestual molestation to "educate" them.



We didn't used to disagree on whether or not this type of material was inappropriate. The left has moved the overton window from standard gray areas of inappropriateness to now thinking that we need to have a discussion on whether books with depictions of blowjobs and books talking about how pleasurable incestual molestation can feel to be in children's libraries.

I'm not saying the entire left is behind this but ONLY left wingers are behind it. If you aren't behind it as well, then you should start speaking out against left wingers but it seems like you are in position to defend them instead.

"Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child" it is appropriate to show them how this situations play out in real life. So they can navigate them.

"The right" is banning books from schools that have been on the shelves for a long time, books that detail male penguins simply caring for an egg because they hate gay stuff. The left isn't the one running with the goal posts.

 

[mkess101]

Why the scare quotes there? Makes it sound like you're kind of mocking the idea of wanting evidence before making a decision.


I don't think that's an accurate characterization of anyone's position. Surely you understand that pictures and words convey different types of information, right?

Why ignore what I said about a verbal recitation of this story in these exact words? Absolutely nobody would deem it appropriate for this author to verbally tell a group of 12 year olds (or a lone 12 year old) the story in this manner. Yet it's fine for them to absorb the EXACT same words in written form from the author?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

We're talking about books, though.

i don't think we need research about books potentially promoting philia either.
we could use instinct to shut that shit down.

 

[PhitePhan]

"Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child" it is appropriate to show them how this situations play out in real life. So they can navigate them.

"The right" is banning books from schools that have been on the shelves for a long time, books that detail male penguins simply caring for an egg because they hate gay stuff. The left isn't the one running with the goal posts.

What’s the point of having kids read a book about gay penguins?

 

[RoastBeast]

This is so hilarious.

Literally making a case to NOT teach kids about molestation by any means possible, and yet opposing this viewpoint gets you labeled a disgusting weirdo.

Youd make predators smile with this crap.

The case is to NOT have the public school system and NOT have adults other than the parents teach kids about molestation. If I had a kid, I would never, ever allow any of the guys on your side of this debate to ever have any contact with my child and I certainly would never want you talking to them about molestation. I would not trust some random teacher to be able to responsibly educate my child because who the fuck knows if they hold the same radical opinion that you do?

Right because kids, who often are victims or their own family, are learning it all at home from the people victimizing them. Derp.

If it's not consensual it's bad. If it causes mental harm although the sensation at the time wasn't painful, it's bad. If they were manipulated into doing it, it's bad. If it's done to them by an adult, it's bad.

Do you have a concussion or something?

Yeah there's no 100% safe way to protect kids from it because it can happen from your own family, a friend, a teacher, a priest or a random person. Leaving these topics in the hands of the parents is the safest way to go.

There's a very specific reason why the public school system has never been in the business of teaching kids about rape, molestation, sexual pleasure and how to have sex. Because it's completely inappropriate for people to talk to other people's underage children about that kind of of stuff.

If you don't think so, then next time you see some kids outside riding their bikes, go up to them and educate them on the dangers of incestual molestation and how it might feel good but is still a bad thing. Report back on what happens.

 

[brothir]

Standard sex ed is fine. This stuff is way beyond standard sex ed. Having kids read stories about incestual molestation is not appropriate for the public school system. The way sex ed has been taught for years has been perfectly acceptable by society but now liberals want to make it more sexually explicit and available to younger and younger children. You've got guys in this very thread wanting 9 year olds to read stories about incestual molestation to "educate" them.

What do you define as "kids"? The public school system includes high school. Again, you have to be careful with how wide the net you cast is when you say "liberals". There are individuals making arguments.

We didn't used to disagree on whether or not this type of material was inappropriate. The left has moved the overton window from standard gray areas of inappropriateness to now thinking that we need to have a discussion on whether books with depictions of blowjobs and books talking about how pleasurable incestual molestation can feel to be in children's libraries.

I'm not saying the entire left is behind this but ONLY left wingers are behind it. If you aren't behind it as well, then you should start speaking out against left wingers but it seems like you are in position to defend them instead.

There have been long-standing disagreements on what should and shouldn't be banned in terms of fiction available in public schools, at every level. Plenty of fiction has been banned even for high schools. I'm not arguing that fiction with significant sexual themes should be made available to the very youngest, but I am against banning books.