Josh Barnett got a BJJ blackbelt from Erik Paulsen & Rigan Machado without ever training BJJ

[Grassshoppa]

He submitted Dean Lister so why not give him his black belt.

 

[nefti]

if a chinese restaurant can make one of the best hamburgers in the world pretty consistently but doesn't feature it on the menu save for seasonal occasions and special events and doesn't really want to open a burger restaurant, does that mean the chef isn't a burger guy?

Actually its an bad analogy because it didn’t answer my initial question.

He speaks down in bjj, claims he doesnt train bjj, and doesnt represent bjj. So why force feed a black belt to a man who never had any respect for the art or never wanted to be a part for the art?

 

[cugnao]

Position before submission means takedown, grinding topgame, and sub.

Sorry for mistyping, I corrected what I said that : before CW is more about submission before position which is not so true when I saw the metamoris match between josh Barnett and Dean Lister.
The CW style of Josh Barnett has been blended with BJJ training as the BJJ style of Dean Lister was blended with Sambo

 

[rmongler]

Sorry for mistyping, I corrected what I said that : before CW is more about submission before position which is not so true when I saw the metamoris match between josh Barnett and Dean Lister.
The CW style of Josh Barnett has been blended with BJJ training as the BJJ style of Dean Lister was blended with Sambo

Is it too much to ask for a guy to be his own person? Or for their teams and training partners to be 'their own thing', for that matter?

I think the attempt to take credit for any grappler who's successful in some way is definitely one of the least attractive parts about many in the 'extended userbase' of bjj.

 

[nefti]

Is it too much to ask for a guy to be his own person? Or for their teams and training partners to be 'their own thing', for that matter?

I think the attempt to take credit for any grappler who's successful in some way is definitely one of the least attractive parts about many in the 'extended userbase' of bjj.

Well erik paulson , barnetts longtime coach, says his style is a blend of cw and bjj.

 

[cugnao]

Well erik paulson , barnetts longtime coach, says his style is a blend of cw and bjj.

That the trend, all the grappling styles are blending each over

 

[RJ Green]

Actually its an bad analogy because it didn’t answer my initial question.

He speaks down in bjj, claims he doesnt train bjj, and doesnt represent bjj. So why force feed a black belt to a man who never had any respect for the art or never wanted to be a part for the art?

why care?

 

[nefti]

That the trend, all the grappling styles are blending each over

Not a trend, a specific style of a specific school headed by erik paulson due to his own unique training history.

 

[cugnao]

Not a trend, a specific style of a specific school headed by erik paulson due to his own unique training history.

BJJ itself is a mix of judo fusen ryu, some wrestling and sambos over the time thanks to Rolls Gracie

 

[yetanother]

Surprised he did well in the gi though. There are definitely gi-specific grips and subs that you would think a bb should know.

If you find his gi fights against Otavio Souza and Rommulo Barral you can see they where beating him in regular jiu jitsu despite being a lot smaller but his leg locks have him an edge (it was a gi with heel hooks tournament that Barnett though was no-gi so he signed up).

 

[nefti]

why care?

Why not?

 

[Dirty Holt]

The main diffference between BJJ and CW, BJJ is position before submission, CW is submission before position. I don't know if it's still the case. CW are not so well versed in the guard game, it's much more about takedowns, painful grinding top game and sub. They do more leglocks like the boston crab, neck cranks with the full nelson grab, the submissions are more brute force yanking than leverage focused. It's my opinion

This is incorrect. Unlike BJJ, in catch wrestling you can terminate a match with position only. Catch wrestlers traditionally are not well versed in the guard game because being in guard will 9/10 end the match in catch wrestling. Also traditionally, leverage is just as important in catch as it is in BJJ for a good reason - You cannot win via points in catch, so when you get to a position where you can terminate the match with a submission, just yanking and praying is a terrible strategy. With no points or no advantages, using proper leverage and technique is critical.

 

[RJ Green]

Why not?

because life is too short to be butthurt over a bauble somebody else wears around their waist?

 

[nefti]

because life is too short to be butthurt over a bauble somebody else wears around their waist?

Its a discussion forum god forbid we express our opinions.

 

[RJ Green]

Its a discussion forum god forbid we express our opinions.

oh you can express your opinion all you want, I'm just saying you shouldn't care, and neither should we.

 

[nefti]

oh you can express your opinion all you want, I'm just saying you shouldn't care, and neither should we.

I should and could. He doesnt train bjj ,he doesnt respect bjj, and he has shown a complete lack of appreciation and respect for the artform.

Lets face it erik shouldnt have given him a black belt. Unless, erik knows something about barnetts training we dont know about.

 

[cugnao]

This is incorrect. Unlike BJJ, in catch wrestling you can terminate a match with position only. Catch wrestlers traditionally are not well versed in the guard game because being in guard will 9/10 end the match in catch wrestling. Also traditionally, leverage is just as important in catch as it is in BJJ for a good reason - You cannot win via points in catch, so when you get to a position where you can terminate the match with a submission, just yanking and praying is a terrible strategy. With no points or no advantages, using proper leverage and technique is critical.

Nice explanation, thank you

 

[chubbman]

At least it was given to him. Didn’t Ben Askren just declare himself a blackbelt?

 

[yetanother]

At least it was given to him. Didn’t Ben Askren just declare himself a blackbelt?

Ben has been at black belt level in BJJ for years. He trains in the gi and had a points jiu jitsu (passing guard and sitting around in dominant position) ground work style in MMA before he started using folkstyle wrestling on the ground.

 

[cugnao]

At least it was given to him. Didn’t Ben Askren just declare himself a blackbelt?

I think Chael Sonnen declares Askren as a BJJ black belt if I am not wrong