Social Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin have announced they are forming an alternative to Patreon

[EradiatedHaggis]

He’s now a hack who’s tasted the money and loves the spotlight.

The word hack does not mean what you think it means. Money and spotlight has nothing to do with the term. He has not changed his speech patterns one iota nor has he caved on his views nor lost/changed his convictions.

As to the OP. This will only be good if people actually use it to keep it going. Otherwise it is just going to be another failed attempt in a long line of "gabs" that have been crushed by the ultra fascist far leftists in silicon valley.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

The word hack does not mean what you think it means. Money and spotlight has nothing to do with the term. He has not changed his speech patterns one iota nor has he caved on his views nor lost/changed his convictions.

As to the OP. This will only be good if people actually use it to keep it going. Otherwise it is just going to be another failed attempt in a long line of "gabs" that have been crushed by the ultra fascist far leftists in silicon valley.

Oh and speaking of people actually using it...

Both Peterson and Rubin recently posted a video talking about it, how its going to take longer than expected, gaining a bunch of professional help from engineers, programmers, business people...and are STILL ASKING FOR MORE HELP. They need ideas and to have information about this to spread if it ever launches.

So if you think its a good idea to stop leftist fascism or even if you LOVE leftist fascism but somehow still actually like freedom of speech for everyone (or for just those leftists that also need a platform after being banned)...help them out.

 

[brackis1]

Oh and speaking of people actually using it...

Both Peterson and Rubin recently posted a video talking about it, how its going to take longer than expected, gaining a bunch of professional help from engineers, programmers, business people...and are STILL ASKING FOR MORE HELP. They need ideas and to have information about this to spread if it ever launches.

So if you think its a good idea to stop leftist fascism or even if you LOVE leftist fascism but somehow still actually like freedom of speech...help them out.

lol it's almost as if....wait for it....I was right about Patreon being very difficult to build into a workable platform.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

lol it's almost as if....wait for it....I was right about Patreon being very difficult to build into a workable platform.

I hope you meant profitable platform because the platform itself is not difficult to build...they are just a middle-man in a transaction...

They dont want to build another Patreon. They want to build a simple way for anyone, to be able to donate money to anyone else and not have to rely only on credit-card companies since THEY are also getting involved in banning people AND worse yet, are actually coming up with "rules" that will allow them to legally monitor every single purchase you make and destroy you via it if it goes against their "rules.

Its in the video. Master-card is actually behind some people being banned by Patreon and other places.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Welcome to post-irony. Just kidding though it’s super ironic to use that meme as someone who gets all of his talking points from right wing meme threads. ‘Neckbeard’ and ‘incel’ buzzwords, please.

What are my talking points?

 

[panamaican]

I hope you meant profitable platform because the platform itself is not difficult to build...they are just a middle-man in a transaction...

They dont want to build another Patreon. They want to build a simple way for anyone, to be able to donate money to anyone else and not have to rely only on credit-card companies since THEY are also getting involved in banning people AND worse yet, are actually coming up with "rules" that will allow them to legally monitor every single purchase you make and destroy you via it if it goes against their "rules.

Its in the video. Master-card is actually behind some people being banned by Patreon and other places.

Wait, so the goal is to allow money transfers without using companies that ban people. That's pointless if they're trying to do this electronically, short of only taking cryptocurrency. No matter who makes the platform if the financial institution refuses to operate with the platform then they're SOL. I suppose they could just do direct wires to each other's bank accounts but that seems unwieldy.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Wait, so the goal is to allow money transfers without using companies that ban people. That's pointless if they're trying to do this electronically, short of only taking cryptocurrency. No matter who makes the platform if the financial institution refuses to operate with the platform then they're SOL. I suppose they could just do direct wires to each other's bank accounts but that seems unwieldy.

No, the plan is to use as many different ways as possible so no one company like Mastercard can force them to shut someone down.

By using everyone and everything available, no one can force them to do anything. Cryptocurrency will be one of those ways. I believe they tossed around the idea of also trying to find a way to use banks also so someone can make a direct payment.

 

[panamaican]

No, the plan is to use as many different ways as possible so no one company like Mastercard can force them to shut someone down.

By using everyone and everything available, no one can force them to do anything. Cryptocurrency will be one of those ways. I believe they tossed around the idea of also trying to find a way to use banks also so someone can make a direct payment.

Yes they still will be able to force the platform to do something if enough platform users use those companies to process their electronic transactions.

Sure, there are people who have a Visa card, a MasterCard, an American Express card and a Discover card in their wallet. But most people only carry Visa and MasterCard (I think the average is 2.6 cards). If MC or Visa decide to stop processing transactions for a platform, it's going to shut down everyone on the platform - regardless of content. I don't know how you keep a platform like that going when your content providers realize that they can't get funds through you. They complain and you're left with 2 choices - lose your mainstream content to defend your fringe content OR keep your mainstream content happy and acquiesce to the payment processing company.

I don't think there's a 3rd option because with any form of electronic payment, the control doesn't lay with the payer, the payee or the platform. It's 100% with the card issuer and processor, the CC's, banks, etc.

If they've come up a workaround, kudos, because I think they'll be the first and only.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Yes they still will be able to force the platform to do something if enough platform users use those companies to process their electronic transactions.

Sure, there are people who have a Visa card, a MasterCard, an American Express card and a Discover card in their wallet. But most people only carry Visa and MasterCard (I think the average is 2.6 cards). If MC or Visa decide to stop processing transactions for a platform, it's going to shut down everyone on the platform - regardless of content. I don't know how you keep a platform like that going when your content providers realize that they can't get funds through you. They complain and you're left with 2 choices - lose your mainstream content to defend your fringe content OR keep your mainstream content happy and acquiesce to the payment processing company.

I don't think there's a 3rd option because with any form of electronic payment, the control doesn't lay with the payer, the payee or the platform. It's 100% with the card issuer and processor, the CC's, banks, etc.

If they've come up a workaround, kudos, because I think they'll be the first and only.

Unless they come up with a way to allow a person to easily transfer money from one payment form to another...and...bam!

There really would be no way for Mastercard to know if a person is buying .2% of a bitcoin to donate to someone they dont like...or if they are using their card to have $5 donated through Jerald's money orders to someone.

 

[panamaican]

Unless they come up with a way to allow a person to easily transfer money from one payment form to another...and...bam!

There really would be no way for Mastercard to know if a person is buying .2% of a bitcoin to donate to someone they dont like...or if they are using their card to have $5 donated through Jerald's money orders to someone.

Sure, they could do that. But it would have to run through a different platform. Because you couldn't even do the conversion through the platform if one the CC companies refused to handle any transaction originating there.

Like I said, if they can figure it out, kudos to them.

 

[tonni]

So it’s ‘I’ll make my own Visa, for neckbeards and incels!’ ?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Hm, there was Hatreon, it was by that pedo that also made 3d printed guns. Cody Wilson I think. Basically all credit cards and banks blocked it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatreon

 

[Lead]

Yes they still will be able to force the platform to do something if enough platform users use those companies to process their electronic transactions.

Sure, there are people who have a Visa card, a MasterCard, an American Express card and a Discover card in their wallet. But most people only carry Visa and MasterCard (I think the average is 2.6 cards). If MC or Visa decide to stop processing transactions for a platform, it's going to shut down everyone on the platform - regardless of content. I don't know how you keep a platform like that going when your content providers realize that they can't get funds through you. They complain and you're left with 2 choices - lose your mainstream content to defend your fringe content OR keep your mainstream content happy and acquiesce to the payment processing company.

I don't think there's a 3rd option because with any form of electronic payment, the control doesn't lay with the payer, the payee or the platform. It's 100% with the card issuer and processor, the CC's, banks, etc.

If they've come up a workaround, kudos, because I think they'll be the first and only.

This is what worries me. I can understand a media content provider or host picking and choosing what is broadcasted but to have a company like MC/ Visa do this doesn't sit well. They have far too much control of the economy to be picking and choosing like that. And if MC really pressure patreon with some of this stuff, how often do they do this? I use to be concerned about oligarchies for other reasons but now it's more because a handful of people can completely wreck a business like that.

 

[panamaican]

This is what worries me. I can understand a media content provider or host picking and choosing what is broadcasted but to have a company like MC/ Visa do this doesn't sit well. They have far too much control of the economy to be picking and choosing like that. And if MC really pressure patreon with some of this stuff, how often do they do this? I use to be concerned about oligarchies for other reasons but now it's more because a handful of people can completely wreck a business like that.

I'm admittedly far less concerned about that type of stuff.

In the moment, it feels like a large intrusion on our individual sovereignty by nameless and faceless others. But stretched over time, society has always operated this way. Small influential groups directing society for a relatively short period of time - 5 years, 10 years, etc.

I'm not a huge history buff but there is something I always find fascinating. It's reading about a change in society that takes 2-3 pages to explain and then look and how long that was in actual years. We tend to think that the changes we're experiencing, the ups and downs, are these seismic social shifts when in reality it's just a small blip in the timeline of social changes. In 10 years, some other group will be pushing for something and this moment of time will be barely remembered as a barometer of what we, Americans, believe in.

 

[Lead]

I'm admittedly far less concerned about that type of stuff.

In the moment, it feels like a large intrusion on our individual sovereignty by nameless and faceless others. But stretched over time, society has always operated this way. Small influential groups directing society for a relatively short period of time - 5 years, 10 years, etc.

I'm not a huge history buff but there is something I always find fascinating. It's reading about a change in society that takes 2-3 pages to explain and then look and how long that was in actual years. We tend to think that the changes we're experiencing, the ups and downs, are these seismic social shifts when in reality it's just a small blip in the timeline of social changes. In 10 years, some other group will be pushing for something and this moment of time will be barely remembered as a barometer of what we, Americans, believe in.

I'd like to believe that but the other piece of the oligarch set up that concerns me is I think they will last longer than the norm. Now that you say it, I do think a credit card network could possibly begin to fade away with services like paypall and venmo but I do not see them becoming more decentralized. Discrimination of viewpoints makes sense to me when the services is a publisher or some type of content broadcaster but once we leave that domain, how many companies do you need to get through today to run your business. CC processors, banks, internet domain companys, shipping companys, etc. I've seen the first three of those four make decisions like this in the past. In reality, I would think the best solution is the decision outraged the public enough for them to stay away from those decisions rather than listening to targeted activists asking to have that person/group/business cut off from their services.

 

[panamaican]

I'd like to believe that but the other piece of the oligarch set up that concerns me is I think they will last longer than the norm. Now that you say it, I do think a credit card network could possibly begin to fade away with services like paypall and venmo but I do not see them becoming more decentralized. Discrimination of viewpoints makes sense to me when the services is a publisher or some type of content broadcaster but once we leave that domain, how many companies do you need to get through today to run your business. CC processors, banks, internet domain companys, shipping companys, etc. I've seen the first three of those four make decisions like this in the past. In reality, I would think the best solution is the decision outraged the public enough for them to stay away from those decisions rather than listening to targeted activists asking to have that person/group/business cut off from their services.

Targeted activists have always been the fomenters of change. For every 1 activist you see, there's a larger uncounted number of people who believe the same thing. The activist is just the one willing to put themselves front and center to address it.

I believe that these moments in time are more reflective of society's beliefs that people initially believe. And the corporations that act on these things probably have a better finger on the pulse of society than your average American. Someone who is mostly only tuned in to their personal opinion and rarely takes the temperature of society at large.

 

[Lead]

Targeted activists have always been the fomenters of change. For every 1 activist you see, there's a larger uncounted number of people who believe the same thing. The activist is just the one willing to put themselves front and center to address it.

I believe that these moments in time are more reflective of society's beliefs that people initially believe. And the corporations that act on these things probably have a better finger on the pulse of society than your average American. Someone who is mostly only tuned in to their personal opinion and rarely takes the temperature of society at large.

Do you really like society would be mad on MC for not acting on these requests? I don’t see how anyone would put fault on MC for simply handling payments. And they somewhat had a degree of seperation here since they pressured patreon about it. I could believe the average person could be for more censorship despite the counter outrage when it happens. I just don’t approve of the method it’s being done there.

 

[panamaican]

Do you really like society would be mad on MC for not acting on these requests? I don’t see how anyone would put fault on MC for simply handling payments. And they somewhat had a degree of seperation here since they pressured patreon about it. I could believe the average person could be for more censorship despite the counter outrage when it happens. I just don’t approve of the method it’s being done there.

I think MC realizes that more people would be upset at them not than would be upset at them acting. They're not paying attention to the 80% of the population who don't care (like me). They're weighing the people at the edges - the ones who are vocal. From that group - how many people will stop using MC for doing something vs. how many will stop using MC for doing nothing.

The average person doesn't care one way or another. But that also means that the average person doesn't see this as censorship either. Because they don't care. The thing that people one the edges mistakenly think is that people in the middle have taken a side when they haven't.

The Golden Globes were just on, I don't know if you watched it but I didn't. The next day there were all these articles about women's dresses and which movie won vs. shouldn't have won. The people who care take that whole thing very, very seriously. They will debate for months if the right movie won, if the awards givers are being swayed by some external factor, if this dress was the right selection for that actress, etc. They will pick sides on each of those topics. But the people who didn't watch aren't picking sides. They're neither agreeing nor disagreeing with which movie won - they simply have no opinion on the matter.

People who care about MC impacting Patreon are like people who watch the Golden Globes. They'll debate it at length while forgetting that a huge chunk of the population is watching a different channel and just don't care what MC is doing or what Patreon is doing.