Jon was already slowing down before his break...

[ferrisjso]

yes

There was a time saying that would have led to and now nothing. Sherdog has changed man. People say Pride never dies but their fanbase clearly has.

I'ma drink now you've made me sad.

 

[StonedLemur]

There's an argument for that. But if all 3 first rounds are close and the last 2 are clearly Jones it's much easier for Jones to get to 3 than Reyes who only has only 1 path. That's why Jones is such a genius at winning decisions.

That's not how it's scored though, they're supposed to hand over the cards after each round.
I didn't think Jones was even close in the first 3 tbh.

He needed a 10-8 and 10-9 in the last 2 to get a draw, and he definitely didn't get a 10-8 in either is all I'm saying sir.


Either way he looked awful in that fight.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

People say soon as Jon fought equally tall fighters he come unstuck, which is sort of true, but I think there’s more to it than that. His last few fights just looked like he didn’t wanna be there, whereas before he was playful, throwing odd techniques, mixing things up better than anyone.

Maybe he just doesn’t like hurting people like he used too. Maybe he resents the fans because he’s pretty much universally hated despite being one of the best fighters ever. I don’t think his decline is purely physical because he’s not that old.

"He pretty much universally hated"
I don't think so. Yes, he's had his problems with the law, PED's etc.. but as a fighter the guy was top of the food chain. I kind of enjoyed the whole fake Christian thing. I think it added to his aura. One of the GOAT's who knew when it was time to leave. I'm a fan.

 

[ferrisjso]

That's not how it's scored though, they're supposed to hand over the cards after each round.
I didn't think Jones was even close in the first 3 tbh.

He needed a 10-8 and 10-9 in the last 2 to get a draw, and he definitely didn't get a 10-8 in either is all I'm saying sir.


Either way he looked awful in that fight.

I meant if the first 3 were close Jones could think he probably picked up a round on 2 scorecards which is all he needed if he clearly won 4 and 5. If you win 3 rounds close it's possible but very far from certain you're going to get all 3 on all 3 cards.

Similar situation for Jones v Gus I though Gus came closer to winning in my eyes. Gus had a case for winning the first 3 rounds. But those were closer rounds than 4 and 5 were for Jones thus Jones won on most cards. People called the Gus fight a robbery initially based on the same logic as Jones v Reyes but as the years passed the publics opinion of the fight slowly changed.

While 100% of the MMA media gave Hendricks 3 rounds in a losing effort(which was unprecedented until recently) the same principle is at play here because Hendricks needed all 3 rounds to win the fight and 3 judges seldom agree on anything.

I do think the first 3 Jones v Reyes rounds were all close though I haven't looked at them in awhile.

 

[reviv4l]

Y'all know the smallest of those opponents DC was the HW champ right?

DC is thicc, y'all. And much more skilled than any of them.

 

[ferrisjso]

DC is thicc, y'all. And much more skilled than any of them.

I mean this principle applies to most LHWs and HWs. And Shad woulda beaten DC IMO if he didn't get hurt. Machida was a bloody monster and he might as well have been Apollo fighting Drago when he went up against Jones.

 

[corrupted]

I meant if the first 3 were close Jones could think he probably picked up a round on 2 scorecards which is all he needed if he clearly won 4 and 5. If you win 3 rounds close it's possible but very far from certain you're going to get all 3 on all 3 cards.

Similar situation for Jones v Gus I though Gus came closer to winning in my eyes. Gus had a case for winning the first 3 rounds. But those were closer rounds than 4 and 5 were for Jones thus Jones won on most cards. People called the Gus fight a robbery initially based on the same logic as Jones v Reyes but as the years passed the publics opinion of the fight slowly changed.

While 100% of the MMA media gave Hendricks 3 rounds in a losing effort(which was unprecedented until recently) the same principle is at play here because Hendricks needed all 3 rounds to win the fight and 3 judges seldom agree on anything.

I do think the first 3 Jones v Reyes rounds were all close though I haven't looked at them in awhile.

I agree. I still think Gus 1 was the closest he's come to losing. That and the TRT Armbar

 

[The Last King]

I mean this principle applies to most LHWs and HWs. And Shad woulda beaten DC IMO if he didn't get hurt. Machida was a bloody monster and he might as well have been Apollo fighting Drago when he went up against Jones.

Rashad would have been KTFO by DC.

 

[ferrisjso]

I agree. I still think Gus 1 was the closest he's come to losing. That and the TRT Armbar

Yup Gus was about to win round 4 and the fight before the elbows of god came raining down. Also Shad came the closest to KO'ing Jones. That kick was a thing of beauty and Jones tanked it so well his haters don't even bring it up.

 

[ferrisjso]

Rashad would have been KTFO by DC.

He said, she said. Fight never happened.

 

[The Last King]

He said, she said. Fight never happened.

Fair enough.

 

[StonedLemur]

I meant if the first 3 were close Jones could think he probably picked up a round on 2 scorecards which is all he needed if he clearly won 4 and 5. If you win 3 rounds close it's possible but very far from certain you're going to get all 3 on all 3 cards.

Similar situation for Jones v Gus I though Gus came closer to winning in my eyes. Gus had a case for winning the first 3 rounds. But those were closer rounds than 4 and 5 were for Jones thus Jones won on most cards. People called the Gus fight a robbery initially based on the same logic as Jones v Reyes but as the years passed the publics opinion of the fight slowly changed.

While 100% of the MMA media gave Hendricks 3 rounds in a losing effort(which was unprecedented until recently) the same principle is at play here because Hendricks needed all 3 rounds to win the fight and 3 judges seldom agree on anything.

I do think the first 3 Jones v Reyes rounds were all close though I haven't looked at them in awhile.

Fair enough, maybe give it a peek if you get a chance.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

There's an argument for that. But if all 3 first rounds are close and the last 2 are clearly Jones it's much easier for Jones to get to 3 than Reyes who only has only 1 path. That's why Jones is such a genius at winning decisions.

Well that's not how math works at all. Yes, Jones could have more potential rounds given to him than Reyes could, but not easier to score the fight for Jones when getting any of those rounds is a low low percentage. They weren't close. One of the easiest 48-47's one could score, and not a single judge got it right

 

[BigGucci]

There's an argument for that. But if all 3 first rounds are close and the last 2 are clearly Jones it's much easier for Jones to get to 3 than Reyes who only has only 1 path. That's why Jones is such a genius at winning decisions.

There's no reasonable argument for anything but a 3-2 Reyes scorecard, none of the rounds were close.

 

[corrupted]

Yup Gus was about to win round 4 and the fight before the elbows of god came raining down. Also Shad came the closest to KO'ing Jones. That kick was a thing of beauty and Jones tanked it so well his haters don't even bring it up.

Jones is something else. You don't get to the top of THAT hill at 23 as a normal motherfucker. There are things he's good at that we've not even seen yet.

Good example is the SECOND Gus fight. Somewhere in the 1st 2 or 3 exchanges he literally disabled Gus. Looking at some of the calf kicks we've seen and how they effected their receivers, I'm pretty sure he clipped a nerve and stopped the main thing Gus did in the 1st fight immediately. From there it was just when and how. I know there are asterisks and hashtags against a lot of what he has done. But he still does it better. Still won the Reyes fight. If they fought again I'd actually be worried for Dom. Same with Santos

 

[The Last King]

Jones is something else. You don't get to the top of THAT hill at 23 as a normal motherfucker. There are things he's good at that we've not even seen yet.

Good example is the SECOND Gus fight. Somewhere in the 1st 2 or 3 exchanges he literally disabled Gus. Looking at some of the calf kicks we've seen and how they effected their receivers, I'm pretty sure he clipped a nerve and stopped the main thing Gus did in the 1st fight immediately. From there it was just when and how. I know there are asterisks and hashtags against a lot of what he has done. But he still does it better. Still won the Reyes fight. If they fought again I'd actually be worried for Dom. Same with Santos

Gus went 0-4 since that fight and Jones pissed hot for that fight. Since then Jones doesn't have a single finish without testing + for steroids

 

[ferrisjso]

Jones is something else. You don't get to the top of THAT hill at 23 as a normal motherfucker. There are things he's good at that we've not even seen yet.

Good example is the SECOND Gus fight. Somewhere in the 1st 2 or 3 exchanges he literally disabled Gus. Looking at some of the calf kicks we've seen and how they effected their receivers, I'm pretty sure he clipped a nerve and stopped the main thing Gus did in the 1st fight immediately. From there it was just when and how. I know there are asterisks and hashtags against a lot of what he has done. But he still does it better. Still won the Reyes fight. If they fought again I'd actually be worried for Dom. Same with Santos

Yeah these people don't appreciate how dominant the big 4 were in those days. Like that whole group went unbeaten against other fighters for like 5 years plus without losing to anyone else except Forrest in 2 huge upsets. Rampage v Evans did over a million PPVs with no belt on the line.

Before Jones Machidas probably had the best run in MMA history. Rampage didn't get finished for anyone but Jones for like 15 fleeping years. No one really appreciates any of this anymore and it's really sad.

 

[aali14]

Well he looked spectacular until his last match before USADA which was DC 1 at January 2015, then USADA came around mid 2015 and Jones immediately looked like shit after against OSP and so on and so on

 

[ferrisjso]

Gus went 0-4 since that fight and Jones pissed hot for that fight. Since then Jones doesn't have a single finish without testing + for steroids

Jones did not piss hot for that fight. NSAC(the same commission that didn't sanction the fight because it was the holidays) said he was clean for that fight and the internet just refuses to acknowledge that.

 

[NoSmilez]

I think it’s motivation and his lack of training. Look at his camp. It’s dead and he was using retired coaches as sparring partners.

I think jones fights to his opponent’s level. If he feels the opponent is dangerous then he trains his ass off.