Jon Bones Jones: Judo or Greco-Roman?

[Q mystic]

Most Judo guys we see in mma are solid positional grapplers

Some better than wrestlers, who have practiced postioning all their lives. Ask Nefti, he'll tell ya

 

[Morozevich]

Most of the throws he uses are not Greco-Roman per say as he mostly attacks the legs by reaping or tripping in one form or another. That would be illegal in Greco.

Huh? Pretty much every throw he's had in the UFC was entirely upper body.

Jones was a Greco-Roman champion in Junior College (JUCO). The throws are textbook Greco.

 

[Normot]

Huh? Pretty much every throw he's had in the UFC was entirely upper body.

Jones was a Greco-Roman champion in Junior College (JUCO). The throws are textbook Greco.

That is incorrect. Over half his throws we have seen him use in the UFC involved use of the legs. You don't see footsweeps in Greco, but you do see them from Jones.

 

[Ryo]

Huh? Pretty much every throw he's had in the UFC was entirely upper body.

Jones was a Greco-Roman champion in Junior College (JUCO). The throws are textbook Greco.

Everysingle throw I have ever seen Bones perform has involved attacking the legs.

That's certainly not textbook Greco anywhere in the world.

 

[nefti]

i think that there is something that is not often mentioned and overlooked in the forums and that is when it comes to judo vs wrestling (especially greco) is that greco guys spend a whole lifetime working on no gi grips. Someone mentioned this but JJ's gripping ability is pretty impressive and he is adding foot sweeps to his wrestling base. Which ends up with a pretty good end product.

 

[fourfif**]

The throws are textbook Greco.

yes and no.


Greco

Judo

 

[nefti]

Some better than wrestlers, who have practiced postioning all their lives. Ask Nefti, he'll tell ya

???

 

[Neuro]

love your sig, nefti


"Technique is the ultimate goal; being strong and athletic is just a bonus in competition."
-Montahna


Well put on his part.

 

[GBDaz]

Basically he's added in trips with his greco roman.

 

[Q mystic]

???

sry, thought you had it down with your quote...

"which is pretty impressive because he does it better in mma than guys who have done judo all their lives"

 

[Grappler111]

Huh? Pretty much every throw he's had in the UFC was entirely upper body.

Jones was a Greco-Roman champion in Junior College (JUCO). The throws are textbook Greco.

That is incorrect. Over half his throws we have seen him use in the UFC involved use of the legs. You don't see footsweeps in Greco, but you do see them from Jones.

Jon Jones is a wrestler and the throws are textbook Greco and Freestyle Wrestling.



Freestyle wrestling is upper body oriented, allows all the No-Gi tecniques (footseeps, high aplitude throws, extensive clinch game) and is much complete than judo. In olympic wrestling you can benefit from cross-training Greco and Freestyle.
Russians wrestlers have spent years working out how to transfer a lot of soviet traditional wrestling (with and without jacket) styles judo and sambo techniques to mix with Freestyle and Greco for a jacketless environment. Wrestling expecially russian and iranian style has every judo throw that can be done without a gi. American freestyle is too too influenced by folkstyle wrestling but that's another story.

GSP is very effective in clinch wrestling. The big difference is that GSP trains in Freestyle Wrestling with russian coach Victor Ziberman, not in collegiate wrestling.
GSP outwrestled Kos, Fitch and slammed easly judo guy Karo Parysian with freestyle wrestling techniques.
Collegiate Wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling are two different beasts.
Freestyle Wrestling (like greco roman) is stand up wrestling styles and have a very strong upper body and clinch game. Jon Jones used Freestyle and greco techniques, like Dominick Cruz, Frank Edgar, Ben Henderson, Benavidez and Ian McCall.
In freestyle you can apply high amplitude throws and you can slam your opponent. In folkstyle simply you can't!
Freestyle is a dynamic and upper body oriented with a lot of clinch game and throws. Pure folkstyle wrestlers are in big trouble during clinch game.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Jon Jones is a wrestler and the throws are textbook Greco and Freestyle Wrestling.



Freestyle wrestling is upper body oriented, allows all the No-Gi tecniques (footseeps, high aplitude throws, extensive clinch game) and is much complete than judo. In olympic wrestling you can benefit from cross-training Greco and Freestyle.
Russians wrestlers have spent years working out how to transfer a lot of soviet traditional wrestling (with and without jacket) styles judo and sambo techniques to mix with Freestyle and Greco for a jacketless environment. Wrestling expecially russian and iranian style has every judo throw that can be done without a gi. American freestyle is too too influenced by folkstyle wrestling but that's another story.

GSP is very effective in clinch wrestling. The big difference is that GSP trains in Freestyle Wrestling with russian coach Victor Ziberman, not in collegiate wrestling.
GSP outwrestled Kos, Fitch and slammed easly judo guy Karo Parysian with freestyle wrestling techniques.
Collegiate Wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling are two different beasts.
Freestyle Wrestling (like greco roman) is stand up wrestling styles and have a very strong upper body and clinch game. Jon Jones used Freestyle and greco techniques, like Dominick Cruz, Frank Edgar, Ben Henderson, Benavidez and Ian McCall.
In freestyle you can apply high amplitude throws and you can slam your opponent. In folkstyle simply you can't!
Freestyle is a dynamic and upper body oriented with a lot of clinch game and throws. Pure folkstyle wrestlers are in big trouble during clinch game.

I think Folk and Free are closer than Greco and Free.

Almost all the takedowns done in Free can be done in Folk except for a few slams and even those techniques can be tweeked to allow for a controled landing.

And as for the last sentence I don't think Freestyle guys are inherently better in the clinch than Folk guys it is more that Americans are weaker in that areq because of coaching at the younger levels.

There are a lot of bad coaches on the lower level that teach kids that throws are bad and only for desperation. They think they only way to win is double, single, highcrotch and a front headlock.

With the being said when I was a freshman in college I went to an open tournament and ended up wrestling an Iranian who was also I freshman.

I tied up with him and the next thing I knew I was flying through the air (would have been a 5er in GR and I wieghed 275lb) and was pinned faster than I had ever been pinned.

When I walked off the mat my one coach was laughing and told me the Iranian was a 25 year old freshman and was ranked top 3 in Greco in Iran.

That info would have been more helpful before the match.

 

[georgejjr]

He's a wrestler who's picked up some judo throws - which takes a lot of skill (learning just by watching), but isn't unprecedented. Kano learned kata guruma - fireman's carry(from his own account) from a book on western wrestling. Learning via youtube has to be a step up from a book.

Basically, Jones is extremely talented, and is advanced enough in one form of grappling (Greco) that he can add elements from another (judo). But he's still a GR guy. Not because that's where the moves come from (just about any move in any grappling style can be found in other styles), but because wrestling is where he set his foundation. And that's also the reason I say he picked up some judo throws - because he himself says youtube judo is where he picked up some of those throws. If he'd said sambo, or freestyle, sanjaio, then that would be where he picked them up. The techniques exist in all those styles, its just a question of where a particular competitor learned them.

Same thing as learning a kimura (BJJ), keylock (wrestling), ude garami (judo). Same technique, depends up where the guy learned it as to what "style" he's using when he uses it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

It makes sense. Judo is designed for upright clinching style grappling, which MMA facilitates (since if you bend way over folk wrestling style you can get kicked in the face). Judo guys have not traditionally had any problem taking guys down (think about Akiyama vs. Leben for an example), they just typically suck at keeping them there and working their GnP (most likely since Judo matches are over after a good throw so groundwork is de-emphasized).

Jones is smart enough to use whatever works, and for throwing from a clinch using all physical tools available it's hard to beat Judo.

As an aside: why do Judo guys always seem to have shitty cardio? Every decent Judo guy seems to gas really fast in the octagon.

 

[Einarr]

"A lot of the moves I'm performing aren't actually Greco-Roman, they're judo," Jones said. "You can't use a trip in Greco-Roman. I don't have an official judo coach but I've been, it sounds weird, getting on the Internet and watching a lot of Judo moves. I take it seriously."

looks like the extent of his actual judo training is "getting on the Internet and watching a lot of Judo moves"

what a badass.

I never liked Jones before. Now I do. :icon_chee

 

[nefti]

sry, thought you had it down with your quote...

"which is pretty impressive because he does it better in mma than guys who have done judo all their lives"

Yea like gsp using the double leg and knee tap better than guys who have wrestled all their lives, funny thing is that wrestlers dont get all worked up when this is mentioned like some of the "judo experts" here are.

 

[Greco_Wiz]

Jon Jones is a wrestler and the throws are textbook Greco and Freestyle Wrestling.



Freestyle wrestling is upper body oriented, allows all the No-Gi tecniques (footseeps, high aplitude throws, extensive clinch game) and is much complete than judo. In olympic wrestling you can benefit from cross-training Greco and Freestyle.
Russians wrestlers have spent years working out how to transfer a lot of soviet traditional wrestling (with and without jacket) styles judo and sambo techniques to mix with Freestyle and Greco for a jacketless environment. Wrestling expecially russian and iranian style has every judo throw that can be done without a gi. American freestyle is too too influenced by folkstyle wrestling but that's another story.

GSP is very effective in clinch wrestling. The big difference is that GSP trains in Freestyle Wrestling with russian coach Victor Ziberman, not in collegiate wrestling.
GSP outwrestled Kos, Fitch and slammed easly judo guy Karo Parysian with freestyle wrestling techniques.
Collegiate Wrestling and Freestyle Wrestling are two different beasts.
Freestyle Wrestling (like greco roman) is stand up wrestling styles and have a very strong upper body and clinch game. Jon Jones used Freestyle and greco techniques, like Dominick Cruz, Frank Edgar, Ben Henderson, Benavidez and Ian McCall.
In freestyle you can apply high amplitude throws and you can slam your opponent. In folkstyle simply you can't!
Freestyle is a dynamic and upper body oriented with a lot of clinch game and throws. Pure folkstyle wrestlers are in big trouble during clinch game.

Saved me some time.

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

He's said himself he sees it as Judo, I don't see what the big deal is

 

[KJGould]

Cumberland and Westmorland Wrestling.

 

[thewhiteSRR]

"A lot of the moves I'm performing aren't actually Greco-Roman, they're judo," Jones said. "You can't use a trip in Greco-Roman. I don't have an official judo coach but I've been, it sounds weird, getting on the Internet and watching a lot of Judo moves. I take it seriously."

looks like the extent of his actual judo training is "getting on the Internet and watching a lot of Judo moves"

what a badass.

I know its fun to pretend he is some superhuman genetic experiment that can download moves directly into his nervous system, but he probably drills the hell out of them, and has plenty of coaches and training partners to help him where he goes wrong.
He often says himself that people are unaware of how hard he truly works.