Crime Joe pardons Hunter

[Islam Imamate]

Sure if people are insisting that that's the truth which is the right-wing lie that is being told by many.

But I'd say 50% of the people I know that are Democrats think that it's very likely that Hunter and Biden were up to something there and that there was quid pro quo of some kind, or at least an attempt for it.

And it's not slander to think that at all it only becomes slander when you insist that that IS what happened and it only becomes a kind of lie when you insist it is NOT what happened.

My argument with people on this forum has been against their certainty and their willingness to castigate the right or the left based on that certainty. And specifically my criticism of the left is that I often find many Democrats reduce everything to purity tests. Anger and vitriol comes out if you come out of lockstep with the party narrative in even minor ways.


This is pride and arrogance being revealed in the Democratic party on these levels and you see it constantly on this forum. In fact, the only reason I think it exists is because of my experience on this forum.

And that smells so bad that people are pulling away because of it and I think they are right about that and seeing clearly.

We disagree a bit here because I think lending oxygen to bad faith claims that might still be true even after investigations turned up nothing is counter-productive. At least if there was an indictment with some evidence or some reporting suggesting some quid pro quo that would be one thing but as far as I know there really isn't any evidence.

Contrast this with the Jan 6th accusations. Its true we don't have a conviction but we have an indictment full of evidence and some of this stuff is even on YT. One can make that accusation with much more confidence and authority because there's actually evidence of wrongdoing there.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

We disagree a bit here because I think lending oxygen to bad faith claims that might still be true even after investigations turned up nothing is counter-productive. At least if there was an indictment with some evidence or some reporting suggesting some quid pro quo that would be one thing but as far as I know there really isn't any evidence.

Contrast this with the Jan 6th accusations. Its true we don't have a conviction but we have an indictment full of evidence and some of this stuff is even on YT. One can make that accusation with much more confidence and authority because there's actually evidence of wrongdoing there.

Yes but you are saying that they are bad faith claims and I think you're wrong about that.

It is completely reasonable to have red flags go up when Biden gives his son an 11-year pardon. And that is separate from my opinion that it was a terrible idea either way. I think you have no right to be certain that you are correct and that uncertainty is the only truly justifiable position.

You argued earlier for a presumption of Innocence and I think that is also wrong-headed. If you think someone is guilty and you're going to put them in jail then yes a presumption of innocence is required. But when assessing human beings, innocent until proven guilty gets people raped, murdered and swindled all the time.

Anybody who thinks Hunter, Biden and Biden are guilty are well within their reasoned rights to think so. It is only wrong if they claim certainty.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yes but you are saying that they are bad faith claims and I think you're wrong about that.

It is completely reasonable to have red flags go up when Biden gives his son an 11-year pardon. And that is separate from my opinion that it was a terrible idea either way. I think you have no right to be certain that you are correct and that uncertainty is the only truly justifiable position.

You argued earlier for a presumption of Innocence and I think that is also wrong-headed. If you think someone is guilty and you're going to put them in jail then yes a presumption of innocence is required. But when assessing human beings, innocent until proven guilty gets people raped, murdered and swindled all the time.

Anybody who thinks Hunter, Biden and Biden are guilty are well within their reasoned rights to think so. It is only wrong if they claim certainty.

I think with how much the Bidens have been investigated at this point, especially over the Burisma issue in particular, its fair to assume nothing happened as of now. My presumption of innocence is based on that. To be clear I am sure Hunter is guilty of other crimes not unlike what he was convicted for but peddling influence is a whole other level of criminality that I see no evidence for despite all the attention paid to the issue.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

I think with how much the Bidens have been investigated at this point, especially over the Burisma issue in particular, its fair to assume nothing happened as of now. My presumption of innocence is based on that. To be clear I am sure Hunter is guilty of other crimes not unlike what he was convicted for but peddling influence is a whole other level of criminality that I see no evidence for despite all the attention paid to the issue.

And like I said, I think you are free to think that's true. And I'm sure in this thread I've not debated against anybody who just thinks that's true.

If you look at anyone I've debated this with its only been people who begin with certainty and then end with mocking people who disagree and that is unjustifiable, arrogant and prideful and turns people away from the Democratic party.

And that tendency is extremely common on the left and more and more people are beginning to take notice and it's turning people off and I think it is because pride and arrogance are naturally detestable to people.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Perfect that it is clearly to help cover for all the Ukraine selling out. But keep in mind, both China AND Russia, mayor of Moscow’s wife. Just like how Clinton was bought by Russia via Uranium 1, clearly documented. Remember her servers?

Crazy that the media, democrats, intel agencies all blamed trump for all this corruption under the Obama state department, whether it be Russia or Ukraine, Clinton or Biden.

Remember Obama operative from the fugees also being apart of money influence scheme?

the Huessain regime is/was rotten to the core

Just look at all the intel and other government names from that era who have lied to the American people about Russia Russia Russia and Ukraine for a decade now. Traitors

 

[BFoe]

No. Save democracy by forcing out the duly elected presidential candidate and installing a person that no one voted for.

And we were supposed to vote for Kamala to save democracy and the rule of law. You know - "no one is above the law"............ "unless it's a politician's kid."

Just save the gnashing of teeth next time. Admit the left is as screwed up as the right and go on about voting for your team.

Ah yes, I remember the Insurrection of ‘68 when LBJ decided not to run again! And who could forget the horrific threats to democracy when Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Calvin Coolidge, Rutherford B. Hayes (and probably some I am forgetting) caused by declining to run for re-election?

Come on. I’ll admit that was surprised that a good number of Americans actually bought that narrative, so congrats on successful messaging I guess. Reaffirms my belief that most Americans probably should get to their closest college ASAP and take a government class or two.

If you think that pardoning someone makes them above the law—as opposed to just being a check on the law— that’s great—let’s amend the pardon process. I’m not opposed to that.
But there’s no “gnashing of teeth” from me; we put those issues you described about morality and integrity and rule of law in front of the American people, and they rejected them. Those things weren’t important, right?

You can point out 100 things Trump did wrong that does not justify what Biden did is good, what’s your opinion of this without Trump being involved ?

I don’t really like the pardon. I don’t really like pardoning of family members, as both Bill Clinton and Trump did as well. I don’t really like vague, wide-reaching pardons like Ford did for Nixon either.

That said, I do see the other side of it: this investigation into Hunter began when Trump was POTUS the first time, it’s gone on for like 6 years. Nothing like Trump and Republicans have alleged has ever been found. Republicans further had almost another year of investigating Joe Biden for impeachable offenses and mostly just made idiots of themselves. Considering the lengths the GOP is willing to go, and the fact that Trump literally campaigned on vengeance and retribution, I can see Joe Biden’s concern that this shit will simply never end, and therefore he used his constitutional power to end it.

Biden pardoned his son who did crimes Joe was connected to. He pardoned himself.

This isn’t true on either count. There’s no significant evidence that Joe Biden was involved in any crimes related to Hunter, nor is Joe Biden protected from prosecution once he leaves office if that evidence should ever materialize.
But personally, I think it would be neato if the Republicans stopped with the endless CT bullshit and started doing the people’s business for a change. I don’t actually have any real hope that either is going to happen though.

 

[Deleted member 267581]

Exactly what I quoted of your post.

Turning Afghanistan in totality over to the Taliban was never the agreement, as well as leaving $80 billion in military weapons in their hands.

You're delusional to believe otherwise.

https://www.axios.com/2020/02/29/us-milestone-afghanistan-peace-process

Trump invited the Taliban to Washington. lol you live in your feelings boy.

Trump cut the deal.

How was that never in agreement? How were we not going to leave 80 million dollars in weapons if Trump wanted all troops out by January 15th?

lol the maga brain rot is real

 

[GearSolidMetal]

https://www.axios.com/2020/02/29/us-milestone-afghanistan-peace-process

Trump invited the Taliban to Washington. lol you live in your feelings boy.

Trump cut the deal.

How was that never in agreement? How were we not going to leave 80 million dollars in weapons if Trump wanted all troops out by January 15th?

lol the maga brain rot is real

The deal never agreed that the taliban would take over the Afghanistan government, and the whole point of leaving $80 billion in armaments behind was to supply the Afghanistan army and government.

The collapse of the Afghanistan government is on the government, not Trump.

If Biden thought it was a bad deal and the taliban couldn't be trusted then it was his responsibility as president to withdraw it.

It happened under his watch. It's his responsibility. All the 'but Trump' excuses are exactly that - excuses.

 

[Bwagster]

Hunter was gonna talk as soon as the heat ramped up. Joe knew this and that’s why he pardoned him. I’m sure Obama was happy too.

 

[lifelessheap]

Ah yes, I remember the Insurrection of ‘68 when LBJ decided not to run again! And who could forget the horrific threats to democracy when Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Calvin Coolidge, Rutherford B. Hayes (and probably some I am forgetting) caused by declining to run for re-election?

Come on. I’ll admit that was surprised that a good number of Americans actually bought that narrative, so congrats on successful messaging I guess. Reaffirms my belief that most Americans probably should get to their closest college ASAP and take a government class or two.

If you think that pardoning someone makes them above the law—as opposed to just being a check on the law— that’s great—let’s amend the pardon process. I’m not opposed to that.
But there’s no “gnashing of teeth” from me; we put those issues you described about morality and integrity and rule of law in front of the American people, and they rejected them. Those things weren’t important, right?



I don’t really like the pardon. I don’t really like pardoning of family members, as both Bill Clinton and Trump did as well. I don’t really like vague, wide-reaching pardons like Ford did for Nixon either.

That said, I do see the other side of it: this investigation into Hunter began when Trump was POTUS the first time, it’s gone on for like 6 years. Nothing like Trump and Republicans have alleged has ever been found. Republicans further had almost another year of investigating Joe Biden for impeachable offenses and mostly just made idiots of themselves. Considering the lengths the GOP is willing to go, and the fact that Trump literally campaigned on vengeance and retribution, I can see Joe Biden’s concern that this shit will simply never end, and therefore he used his constitutional power to end it.



This isn’t true on either count. There’s no significant evidence that Joe Biden was involved in any crimes related to Hunter, nor is Joe Biden protected from prosecution once he leaves office if that evidence should ever materialize.
But personally, I think it would be neato if the Republicans stopped with the endless CT bullshit and started doing the people’s business for a change. I don’t actually have any real hope that either is going to happen though.

10% to the big guy.

 

[Deleted member 267581]

The deal never agreed that the taliban would take over the Afghanistan government, and the whole point of leaving $80 billion in armaments behind was to supply the Afghanistan army and government.
M

So why did Trump invite the Taliban to the White House?

The collapse of the Afghanistan government is on the government, not Trump.

If Biden thought it was a bad deal and the taliban couldn't be trusted then it was his responsibility as president to withdraw it.

It happened under his watch. It's his responsibility. All the 'but Trump' excuses are exactly that - excuses.

 

[Sinister]

The Democrats must always set a good example for the Republicans to wilfully ignore.

 

[Bwagster]

The Democrats must always set a good example for the Republicans to wilfully ignore.

At this point the Democrats party is the party of liars. Time for them to clean up and take out the Trash.

 

[ShadowRun]

Ah yes, I remember the Insurrection of ‘68 when LBJ decided not to run again! And who could forget the horrific threats to democracy when Teddy Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Calvin Coolidge, Rutherford B. Hayes (and probably some I am forgetting) caused by declining to run for re-election?

Come on. I’ll admit that was surprised that a good number of Americans actually bought that narrative, so congrats on successful messaging I guess. Reaffirms my belief that most Americans probably should get to their closest college ASAP and take a government class or two.

If you think that pardoning someone makes them above the law—as opposed to just being a check on the law— that’s great—let’s amend the pardon process. I’m not opposed to that.
But there’s no “gnashing of teeth” from me; we put those issues you described about morality and integrity and rule of law in front of the American people, and they rejected them. Those things weren’t important, right?



I don’t really like the pardon. I don’t really like pardoning of family members, as both Bill Clinton and Trump did as well. I don’t really like vague, wide-reaching pardons like Ford did for Nixon either.

That said, I do see the other side of it: this investigation into Hunter began when Trump was POTUS the first time, it’s gone on for like 6 years. Nothing like Trump and Republicans have alleged has ever been found. Republicans further had almost another year of investigating Joe Biden for impeachable offenses and mostly just made idiots of themselves. Considering the lengths the GOP is willing to go, and the fact that Trump literally campaigned on vengeance and retribution, I can see Joe Biden’s concern that this shit will simply never end, and therefore he used his constitutional power to end it.



This isn’t true on either count. There’s no significant evidence that Joe Biden was involved in any crimes related to Hunter, nor is Joe Biden protected from prosecution once he leaves office if that evidence should ever materialize.
But personally, I think it would be neato if the Republicans stopped with the endless CT bullshit and started doing the people’s business for a change. I don’t actually have any real hope that either is going to happen though.

What could Trump do from a vengeance standpoint if Hunter did nothing wrong ?

 

[Deleted member 267581]

What could Trump do from a vengeance standpoint if Hunter did nothing wrong ?

Endless investigations lol. Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi

 

[Deleted member 267581]

The deal never agreed that the taliban would take over the Afghanistan government, and the whole point of leaving $80 billion in armaments behind was to supply the Afghanistan army and government.

The collapse of the Afghanistan government is on the government, not Trump.

If Biden thought it was a bad deal and the taliban couldn't be trusted then it was his responsibility as president to withdraw it.

It happened under his watch. It's his responsibility. All the 'but Trump' excuses are exactly that - excuses.

Still waiting on why Trump invited the Taliban the only president to do so if they had no intention of handing over the government to them. It’s just another example of maga brain rot.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Since @Jack V Savage won’t answer, @Islam Imamate — why do you think it’s backdated?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Since @Jack V Savage won’t answer, @Islam Imamate — why do you think it’s backdated?

Idk.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Idk.

Fair enough

 

[nonoob]

Since @Jack V Savage won’t answer, @Islam Imamate — why do you think it’s backdated?

The alleged "10 % Brandon held up US to Ukraine money unless that prosecutor investigating CrackBoy/burisma was fired." That was among the many things done and covered up since then.