• Xenforo is upgrading us to version 2.3.7 on Tuesday Aug 19, 2025 at 01:00 AM BST (date has been pushed). This upgrade includes several security fixes among other improvements. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

Jesse Williams speech

I know quite a few mixed guys and gals, and most treated their mom poorly.

In no way am I saying they all do, since it's only my experiences. Most likely due to living in the south more than anything, since I will admit the quality of persons seems to drop down there.

Still, it amazes me seeing them talk to their mom like shit, and she would be the only one around.

The difference these days is that many mom's are pushovers who allow their children to disrespect them. My mom would have curbed stomped me and then made me clean up the mess if I talked to her the way I see kids talking disrespectfully to their mothers today.
 
So I'd ask what has that Mesopotamian scientific inquiry led to? Modern science and medicine (especially medicine and biological sciences) are a product of Western systematic scientific inquiry. So is standardized and institutionalized education in the sciences, along with rigorous critique methods that separate what works from what doesn't. That directly led to the technological boom, men in space and increased life spans. So how can you divorce Western scientific/skeptic minded world view, which led the West (and only the West) embrace shit like moral relativism and self criticism to a cartoonish extent, from Western culture?

As for the 2nd paragraph, never did I imply what you said. I just pointed out how silly the cultural appropriation reasoning is if we keep going back to see who did what first, instead of embracing what is good and what works from certain cultures and discarding what doesn't.

The scientific/skeptic method isn't a western only world view. It's traceable throughout the history of science. It didn't originate in the West, it arrived there from the East.

And my primary point is that science and math aren't "culture" and if they are, they're certainly not Western in origin. So when someone speaks to cultural appropriation and the response is to claim that the very inventions only belong to one culture is absurd. It's a simplistic way to avoid the point being made by trying to claim some kind of cultural superiority. But if you can point me to something that isn't based on arabic number systems or the Indian use of the concept of zero or the 7 simple machines then maybe scientific development can be credited to a culture that was largely shaped less than 500 years ago.

And cultural appropriation isn't about embracing what is good and discarding what isn't. That's for terms like assimilation or acculturation.
 
What was divisive about his rhetoric? Should he not speak his truths because it makes others uncomfortable? Outside of one statement re: this invention called whiteness there was nothing divisive in it.

And even that has some nugget of truth within it. The man is half black and half white and 99% of this country would label him black before they labeled him white. How does that make sense?

Does he not inherit that same claim to be white that he inherits to be black? Yet there's an inexplicable social more that at best allows him to claim "mixed" or "black" and never "white".

Well, since you admit that he made at least one inappropriate comment, I'll consider that progress.

Also, only fools talk about appropriation. It's extremely divisive.
 
I could be wrong but I think what he's getting at is don't adapt the culture and then stay quiet or stand against black people who stand up.

I disagree. What Wiliams is really saying is:

Beck-crying.gif


54a78a9754dec_-_cryinggifs_01_1.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just can't compare math and science to the passing fashion styles of hip hop which is what this actor seemed to be doing.

When the archaeologists dig through our buried civilization a millenia from now they won't be marveling at baggy pants, gold plated teeth and hats worn sideways.

AND the styles and fashion of the Art Deco era are 10x better than what hip hop culture offers.
TBH, hip hop is crap.

The actor isn't speaking to just hip hop fashion. That's an extremely limited definition of black culture.
 
im all for black people standing up for racism and injustices. But the whole "stealing our culture" thing is absurd. You make profit off of selling clothes and music to white kids then get upset when said white kids are influenced by your style and arts and try to emulate them?

Problem is, t-shirts, denim, hoodies... they all come from whites. Blacks created none of that. But they claim it as their own. So who exactly is responsible for cultural theft here...
 
Well, since you admit that he made at least one inappropriate comment, I'll consider that progress.

Also, only fools that talks about appropriation. It's extremely divisive.

There is a difference between cultural appropriation, cultural assimilation and acculturation.

Only fools think it's divisive to address a point of concern within a community.
 
Then what is he referring too? What besides hair styles and music are they really going on about? FFS

I hear about appropriation all the time, and nothing much comes up besides those two. It is scary to think that they are the only ones being copied somehow. It is so freaking crazy. I want to see some people go around and do that to them. Not really. I just want the divisive nonsense to stop. I seem alone in this battle, but I will remain steadfast.
 
Excellent point. I once read the WIKI on denim and iirc it was created in a French town.
Problem is, t-shirts, denim, hoodies... they all come from whites. Blacks created none of that. But they claim it as their own. So who exactly is responsible for cultural theft here...
 
The difference these days is that many mom's are pushovers who allow their children to disrespect them. My mom would have curbed stomped me and then made me clean up the mess if I talked to her the way I see kids talking disrespectfully to their mothers today.
lol I know.

I tell my sons all the time that if they even THINK about trying me like that, I will beat the hell out of them, and call child services my damn self.
 
There is a difference between cultural appropriation, cultural assimilation and acculturation.

Only fools think it's divisive to address a point of concern within a community.

Why don't you explain it in one short paragraph.
 
The scientific/skeptic method isn't a western only world view. It's traceable throughout the history of science. It didn't originate in the West, it arrived there from the East.

And my primary point is that science and math aren't "culture" and if they are, they're certainly not Western in origin. So when someone speaks to cultural appropriation and the response is to claim that the very inventions only belong to one culture is absurd. It's a simplistic way to avoid the point being made by trying to claim some kind of cultural superiority. But if you can point me to something that isn't based on arabic number systems or the Indian use of the concept of zero or the 7 simple machines then maybe scientific development can be credited to a culture that was largely shaped less than 500 years ago.

And cultural appropriation isn't about embracing what is good and discarding what isn't. That's for terms like assimilation or acculturation.

Yet we only saw a boom in advancements in literally every facet of life after the European enlightenment and development of institutionalized education methods and most importantly methods of critique that go well beyond the sciences. So I'll grant that not only Europeans used science to improve their lives, you could argue monkeys breaking coconuts with rocks are using a form of science, but I still maintain that Western take on the sciences, through standardization, institutionalization, and again self critique cannot be divorced from culture, and it led to most advanced gains in knowledge yet. And it's still leading by a very large margin.

How do you explain life span increase, industrialization and technological advancement being directly correlated to European enlightenment and revolution of thought if many cultures shared that same world view?

Define cultural appropriation then, because I may be missing the point. Also point out why is it wrong for a white kid, who directly feeds black culture through purchase of their product, to appropriate black culture?
 
Segregation 2.0 coming soon
 
Really? What kind of racism is that? I thought victimhood mentality was when a group of people are constantly complaining that another group of people are targeting or taking advantage of them or something similar. Every other thread on this board is about people complaining about SJW's or Trumpites or affirmative action or conservatives or blah blah blah. I would think victim hood mentality is a universal term...not ideology specific.

And what doesn't Trump have to do with anything? And what it have to do with me? Did I say Trump's message isn't one of empowerment? I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people who specifically stated the economic reasons why his message would resonate and why people who wrote him off pre-nomination were wrong.

And the message was perfectly fine.

A couple of weeks ago, we had a thread about what black people wanted white people to do to improve their situation. It was full of racially questionable and outright demeaning posts filled with variants of "take personal responsibility." You didn't bat an eyelash and neither did most people. They simply chimed in. Yet, because this person (I don't know if he's an actor or musician or what) preached the exact same message while also acknowledging certain inequities, the message becomes less valid?

That's bullshit. People want the black community to take responsibility and speak up about its problems but they want that same community to shut up about the problems that come from without. That's absurd. If they're to talk about fatherless homes and own that shit then they should also be able to talk about the institutional issues that influenced it. If they're to talk about violence in their communities then they should also be able to talk about the institutional issues that surround it.

Jesse Williams spoke a very relevant truth. The black community has to do better...even if their situation has pitfalls and problems not of their creation. That's as close to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" as you can fucking get but because he isn't silent on race issues, you and others want to ignore it.
Trump preaches the same divisiveness and his supporters champion it as an underlying message of "empowerment" when he starts talking about how the immigrants are "rapists, thieves, and some, I'm sure, are good people." You're just another storm trooper who perceives his race as a uniform, Pan. You lose all mental faculty when it comes to this.

You're goddamn right I didn't bat an eye. The world is one giant cesspool of inequality. I don't give a shit unless you can show that the system is-- as it is engineered in the present-- designed to oppress a specific group. It isn't. Black men shoot the lights out of everyone and then they whine they get into more violent confrontations with the cops. Hell, just the other day the death of that B-rate rapper from Baltimore was a story. I didn't know who he was, so I went to listen to his top song on YouTube. In the first 30sec I hear the lyrics, "If you don't like me, n***a, spray me." Apparently someone took him to heart. It was certainly a fine example of art imitating life imitating art.

Here's Jessie Williams full speech:
Jessie Williams said:
“Peace. Peace. Thank you Debra. Thank you, Nate Parker. Thank you, Harry and Debbie Allen, for participating in that. Before we get into it, I just want to say I brought my parents out tonight — I just want to thank them for being here and teaching me to focus on comprehension over career. They made sure I learned what the schools were afraid to teach us. And also, thank you to my amazing wife for changing my life.

“Now, this award, this is not for me. This is for the real organizers all over the country. The activists, the civil rights attorneys, the struggling parents, the families, the teachers, the students that are realizing that a system built to divide and impoverish and destroy us cannot stand if we do. All right? It’s kind of basic mathematics. The more we learn about who we are and how we got here, the more we will mobilize.

“Now, this is also in particular for the black women in particular who have spent their lifetimes dedicated to nurturing everyone before themselves. We can and will do better for you.

“Now, what we’ve been doing is looking at the data and we know that police somehow manage to deescalate, disarm and not kill white people every day. So what’s going to happen is we’re going to have equal rights and justice in our own country or we will restructure their function in ours.

“Now, [standing ovation] I got more, y’all.

“Yesterday would have been young Tamir Rice’s 14th birthday. So, I don’t want to hear anymore about how far we’ve come when paid public servants can pull a drive-by on a 12-year-old playing alone in a park in broad daylight, killing him on television and then going home to make a sandwich.

“Tell Rekia Boyd how it’s so much better to live in 2012, than it is to live in 1612 or 1712. Tell that to Eric Garner. Tell that to Sandra Bland. Tell that to Darrien Hunt.

“Now, the thing is, though, all of us in here getting money that alone isn’t going to stop this. All right? Now dedicating our lives to getting money just to give it right back. To put someone’s brand on our body when we spent centuries praying with brands on our bodies and now we pray to get paid with brands for our bodies. There has been no war that we have not fought and died on the front lines of. There has been no job we haven’t done. There’s no tax they haven’t levied against us. And we pay all of them. But freedom is somehow always conditional here. You’re free, they keep telling us, but she would have been alive if she hadn’t acted so free.

“Now, freedom is always coming in the hereafter but, you know what, though, the hereafter is a hustle. We want it now. And let’s get a couple of things straight here, just a little sidenote. The burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That’s not our job. All right, stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, for our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression. If you have no interest in equal rights for black people, then do not make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

“We’ve been floating this country on credit for centuries, yo. And we’re done watching, and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us. Burying black people out of sight and out of mind, while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil — black gold. Ghettoizing and demeaning our creations then stealing them. Gentrifying our genius and then trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, the thing is, that just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we’re not real. Thank you.”
What data sheet is he looking at? Because we discovered that per capita relative to their criminally violent predispositions that blacks are actually less likely to be shot and killed by the police. The Washington Post has worked very hard to dismiss the philosophically sound nature of that context, but this is racist by virtue of not maintaining a just perspective. If you care about inequality in police violence against young black men, then you also have to care about the inequality in predisposition to violent crime committed by that latter group.

Sandra Bland is dead because she "acted free"? You're not better off as a black person in 2012 than 1612? Where exactly is the "bootstrap" speech, Pan? Point that shit out to me. All I see is a guy blaming the hell out of white people for African-American problems: "So what’s going to happen is we’re going to have equal rights and justice in our own country or we will restructure their function in ours". That is a direct reference to "white people" in the preceding sentence.

This is a deep, deep Christmas stocking. I'll be more than happy to force-feed you dicks out of it one by one all day so long as you continue to defend this despicable, divisive, supremacist hate speech.
 
Isn't whining about cultural appropriation relatively new?
I guess the Japanese have to stop using Chinese characters now and Germany, France, England etc. influencing each other and being influenced by ancient Greece was actually a really bad thing?

PS: People have to stop using the term Culture altogether. Culture encompasses everything and is therefore meaningless.
 
Segregation 2.0 coming soon

If you don't want others to emulate your culture, even though you live in the same society, then it would appear so. America comes second to your ethnic roots.

But yeah, lets import uneducated people from the Middle East, who have a different religion, language, culture, mores, virtues, etc.

These guys love to have it both ways.
 
What was divisive about his rhetoric? Should he not speak his truths because it makes others uncomfortable? Outside of one statement re: this invention called whiteness there was nothing divisive in it.

TV is supposed to be a safe space for sensitive whites, though.
 
TV is supposed to be a safe space for sensitive whites, though.
I'm confused(easily done).

Are you saying whites actually think that?? Must suck thinking that and then actually turning on the tv. Must be horrifying considering they love to make them look stupid AF. I don't have a problem with it. I turn it off if it displeases me.
 
Back
Top