Jesse Williams speech

[Madmick]

I really think that a lot of this contention is just people not knowing when to shut the fuck up. A lot of this race baiting crap leads to fueling of the fire. How is any of this back and forth helping anyone?

I'm starting to have difficulty telling who is sincere, who is genuinely ignorant, and who is pandering.

 

[machidafan99]

TBH, when I first checked the clip I was like "Who is this white guy on BET?"
Then I remembered people prefer light skinned folks and blue eyes. Nothing new.

Just more complaints, hypocrisy and no solutions offered on Viacom owned BET.

We have two cultures here in the US. One planted a flag on the moon, the other thinks baggy, low hung pants are an important cultural contribution.

American culture vs. hyphenated culture and neither has anything to do with the amount of melanin in your skin.

 

[panamaican]

Also, why does cultural appropriation go only one way apparently?

They shouldn't use phones, cars, airplanes, electricity in general, antibiotics, etc. Appropriating Western scientific advancement culture at all turns, yet no one calls em out on it. The hypocrisy is thick here.

Science is culture now? Is math culture too? Because then you're going to have an Arabic problem.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Science is culture now? Is math culture too? Because then you're going to have an Arabic problem.

Scientific inquiry and advancement has been largely Western. So good education can be part of culture.

And yeah if we follow the cultural appropriation reasoning to its logical conclusions it gets very silly.

 

[Satur9]

Also, why does cultural appropriation go only one way apparently?

They shouldn't use phones, cars, airplanes, electricity in general, antibiotics, etc. Appropriating Western scientific advancement culture at all turns, yet no one calls em out on it. The hypocrisy is thick here.

lol Come on, man. Isn't it obvious? They just have no clue. None.

Same way they try to say that we should respect other cultures, but just not your culture. How we are all in this together, yet you are a horrible person because of what others have done. It is all a big BS sandwich, and the kids just crave it.

 

[panamaican]

I think his speech was perfectly fine and the backlash here just speaks to the victimhood mentality on this board.

99% of his speech was about telling his audience to take more control of their image, their lives and their communities. That regardless of social circumstances they have a responsibility to themselves. Which is pretty much what people on here constantly complain about except with different language.

Yet because he couched his language in terms of empowerment instead of the more demeaning language you find here, people are criticitizing the underlying message.

 

[dontsnitch]

TBH, when I first checked the clip I was like "Who is this white guy on BET?"
Then I remembered people prefer light skinned folks and blue eyes. Nothing new.

Just more complaints, hypocrisy and no solutions offered on Viacom owned BET.

We have two cultures here in the US. One planted a flag on the moon, the other thinks baggy, low hung pants are an important cultural contribution.

American culture or hyphenated culture and neither has anything to do with the amount of melanin in your skin.

Wow, that's very ignorant of you. We never went to the moon.

 

[dontsnitch]

I think his speech was perfectly fine and the backlash here just speaks to the victimhood mentality on this board.

99% of his speech was about telling his audience to take more control of their image, their lives and their communities. That regardless of social circumstances they have a responsibility to themselves. Which is pretty much what people on here constantly complain about except with different language.

Yet because he couched his language in terms of empowerment instead of the more demeaning language you find here, people are criticitizing the underlying message.

He poisoned his own well. If you engage in divisive rhetoric, the rest of your points don't mean as much.

 

[Madmick]

I think his speech was perfectly fine and the backlash here just speaks to the victimhood mentality on this board.

99% of his speech was about telling his audience to take more control of their image, their lives and their communities. That regardless of social circumstances they have a responsibility to themselves. Which is pretty much what people on here constantly complain about except with different language.

Yet because he couched his language in terms of empowerment instead of the more demeaning language you find here, people are criticitizing the underlying message.

It takes a special kind of racism to perceive those in here as the ones with a "victimhood mentality".

Trump's "underlying message" is one of "empowerment". It's amazing how blind you are to how much you are like him when you defend this shit, Pan.

 

[RhinoRush]

If White people stopped wearing flat-bills and saying "fam" I wouldn't mind...

I think the world would be better off in general if people stopped speaking like retards.

 

[panamaican]

Scientific inquiry and advancement has been largely Western. So good education can be part of culture.

And yeah if we follow the cultural appropriation reasoning to its logical conclusions it gets very silly.

That's simply not true. The origin of scientific inquiry is traceable to Mesopotamia...not westerners. And it's the middle east and the far east that largely drove the development of the scientific world upon which our more modern developments are based. I suppose if you limited history to that which can be traced to Western Europe maybe you could make that claim but science and math aren't parts of "culture".

I would explain cultural appropriation in the context that it's applied here but you're not particularly interested in the accuracy of the phrase or it's proper application preferring some inaccurate version of history where "everything valuable only came from the West" is used as a shorthand version of "they're lucky we dragged those savages out of ignorance."

 

[machidafan99]

Yes, of course, but they and we(euros) are also original tribes of Africa that ventured to the north. Had to survive and became incredibly ingenious out of necessity.
Each dominant culture added to the knowledge. This culture of ongoing advancement is superior, far from perfect, but superior.

That's simply not true. The origin of scientific inquiry is traceable to Mesopotamia...not westerners. And it's the middle east and the far east that largely drove the development of the scientific world upon which our more modern developments are based. I suppose if you limited history to that which can be traced to Western Europe maybe you could make that claim but science and math aren't parts of "culture".

I would explain cultural appropriation in the context that it's applied here but you're not particularly interested in the accuracy of the phrase or it's proper application preferring some inaccurate version of history where "everything valuable only came from the West" is used as a shorthand version of "they're lucky we dragged those savages out of ignorance."

 

[panamaican]

It takes a special kind of racism to perceive those in here as the ones with a "victimhood mentality".

Trump's "underlying message" is one of "empowerment". It's amazing how blind you are to how much you are like him when you defend this shit, Pan.

Really? What kind of racism is that? I thought victimhood mentality was when a group of people are constantly complaining that another group of people are targeting or taking advantage of them or something similar. Every other thread on this board is about people complaining about SJW's or Trumpites or affirmative action or conservatives or blah blah blah. I would think victim hood mentality is a universal term...not ideology specific.

And what doesn't Trump have to do with anything? And what it have to do with me? Did I say Trump's message isn't one of empowerment? I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people who specifically stated the economic reasons why his message would resonate and why people who wrote him off pre-nomination were wrong.

And the message was perfectly fine.

A couple of weeks ago, we had a thread about what black people wanted white people to do to improve their situation. It was full of racially questionable and outright demeaning posts filled with variants of "take personal responsibility." You didn't bat an eyelash and neither did most people. They simply chimed in. Yet, because this person (I don't know if he's an actor or musician or what) preached the exact same message while also acknowledging certain inequities, the message becomes less valid?

That's bullshit. People want the black community to take responsibility and speak up about its problems but they want that same community to shut up about the problems that come from without. That's absurd. If they're to talk about fatherless homes and own that shit then they should also be able to talk about the institutional issues that influenced it. If they're to talk about violence in their communities then they should also be able to talk about the institutional issues that surround it.

Jesse Williams spoke a very relevant truth. The black community has to do better...even if their situation has pitfalls and problems not of their creation. That's as close to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" as you can fucking get but because he isn't silent on race issues, you and others want to ignore it.

 

[panamaican]

He poisoned his own well. If you engage in divisive rhetoric, the rest of your points don't mean as much.

What was divisive about his rhetoric? Should he not speak his truths because it makes others uncomfortable? Outside of one statement re: this invention called whiteness there was nothing divisive in it.

And even that has some nugget of truth within it. The man is half black and half white and 99% of this country would label him black before they labeled him white. How does that make sense?

Does he not inherit that same claim to be white that he inherits to be black? Yet there's an inexplicable social more that at best allows him to claim "mixed" or "black" and never "white".

 

[The ScorpioN]

That's simply not true. The origin of scientific inquiry is traceable to Mesopotamia...not westerners. And it's the middle east and the far east that largely drove the development of the scientific world upon which our more modern developments are based. I suppose if you limited history to that which can be traced to Western Europe maybe you could make that claim but science and math aren't parts of "culture".

I would explain cultural appropriation in the context that it's applied here but you're not particularly interested in the accuracy of the phrase or it's proper application preferring some inaccurate version of history where "everything valuable only came from the West" is used as a shorthand version of "they're lucky we dragged those savages out of ignorance."

So I'd ask what has that Mesopotamian scientific inquiry led to? Modern science and medicine (especially medicine and biological sciences) are a product of Western systematic scientific inquiry. So is standardized and institutionalized education in the sciences, along with rigorous critique methods that separate what works from what doesn't. That directly led to the technological boom, men in space and increased life spans. So how can you divorce Western scientific/skeptic minded world view, which led the West (and only the West) embrace shit like moral relativism and self criticism to a cartoonish extent, from Western culture?

As for the 2nd paragraph, never did I imply what you said. I just pointed out how silly the cultural appropriation reasoning is if we keep going back to see who did what first, instead of embracing what is good and what works from certain cultures and discarding what doesn't.

 

[panamaican]

Yes, of course, but they and we(euros) are also original tribes of Africa that ventured to the north. Had to survive and became incredibly ingenious out of necessity.
Each dominant culture added to the knowledge. This culture of ongoing advancement is superior, far from perfect, but superior.

Agreed and it is a universal culture.

 

[Guilherme DeLuv]

Modern rap music mostly consists of a mix between teen pop and dance music... the only things "rap" in modern rap are vocals and the way the artists are portrayed by their producers. And as long as I know, teen pop and dance music are "white" culture.

Hilarious accusations - since Public Enemy was one of the first musical groups criticized because of "culture appropriation" in their 1988 It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back.

 

[glennrod]

Haven't seen a thread on this yet. What is American sentiment regarding this speech? Supportive or inclined to disagree?

Video in the link:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/jesse-willams-bet-awards-speech-racism-1201804208/

I've got white friends who look blacker than this entitled piece of shit

 

[ShayosInvisble]

I think the world would be better off in general if people stopped speaking like retards.

I just want to be able to buy a bag from my guy with out him calling me "dah famity"

 

[machidafan99]

Agreed and it is a universal culture.

I just can't compare math and science to the passing fashion styles of hip hop which is what this actor seemed to be doing.

When the archaeologists dig through our buried civilization a millenia from now they won't be marveling at baggy pants, gold plated teeth and hats worn sideways.

AND the styles and fashion of the Art Deco era are 10x better than what hip hop culture offers.
TBH, hip hop is crap.