JDS vs Cain III:Gameplans

[Fury]

I was gonna post this but I felt I was already on his case a little too much. If memory serves wasn't it fairly even? Mostly stuffed takedowns/pop ups. Significant shots being Cain landing some good stiff left hands Junior a couple of body shots -knockdown changed everything?
Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm way off

My point was the early takedowns plus attempts had JDS off guard. He caught Cain with some shots but seemed to get the worse of it. He ate a leg kick, some jabs, a big knee, a couple decent power shots and body punches in the clinch prior to the big punch. He looked wore down prior to it from the combo of pressure and getting hit.

 

[Duxtape]

I was gonna post this but I felt I was already on his case a little too much. If memory serves wasn't it fairly even? Mostly stuffed takedowns/pop ups. Significant shots being Cain landing some good stiff left hands Junior a couple of body shots -knockdown changed everything?
Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm way off

Cain basically lit him up on the feet.

For the people obsessed with numbers:

http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/4137

 

[lolcat15]

So he stops the take downs...then what?

His face didn't look like this because of take downs.

what im trying to say is he didnt get ragdolled like you're trying to tell us.

JDS will be back better than ever, this is a good lesson for him. He felt what Cain have to offer, he will make some adjustments and get that belt back.

see Sonnen vs. Silva 2

im out

 

[Bimbo]

what im trying to say is he didnt get ragdolled like you're trying to tell us.

JDS will be back better than ever, this is a good lesson for him. He felt what Cain have to offer, he will make some adjustments and get that belt back.

see Sonnen vs. Silva 2

im out

Great to see that you have trust in JDS.
I'm not sure if even JDS believes that though.

JDS won, but it was not a fight. He won in the first minute or so with one punch.
However, the fight he lost was a real fight. He had 5 rounds to win, but was far away from success.
These two facts will certainly affect his confidence. Maybe in a good way, but most of the time it plays in a bad way.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

junior said he wants to work his jiu jitsu a bit more, which makes sense - constantly trying to get up might not be a good idea since he was already so tired - he will also want to pace himself a bit more

cain's head movement seems relatively predictable, i think junior should focus on planting his feet and throwing good combos - he is gonna get taken down, so dont get too worried about that all the time - junior needs to hit cain with a big punch, circle off the cage when he finds himself there, and try to pace himself by not constantly trying to work against the takedown - if hes feeling tired, he can just go down for a while and rest

thats the key to me, to get better cardio in later rounds by not spending himself - he needs to do damage by planting his feet and throwing combos not just an uppercut here and there, he will land as he did land relatively well when they were on the feet - and to not worry if he gets taken down, just relax and work his jits, wait for the right opportunity to get up - he cant keep pace with cain and cain knows that


for cain, i think he needs to use better head movement and focus on his defense more - he almost got clipped a few times and i think he was leaving himself open a bit more

so not huge changes, but there are things to be done

 

[Break Brick]

Cain basically lit him up on the feet.

For the people obsessed with numbers:

http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/4137

Was about to go look for these, cheers.
Interesting numbers in regards to TD's if you ask me

 

[whynotme]

JDS could attempt to attack with his own grappling or strikes when he throws off Cain's TD attempts early on. He would shrug off the attempts and then just circle away, rinse/repeat til he got tired. Then he got clipped.

So yeah, when Cain was laying face down 3-4 times after JDS shrugged off the single leg attempts, he possibly could've tried to attack in some fashion.

This,

Let say MMA is the sum of striking, grappling and ground game, each is 33%. When you are at the top of the game, fighters capacities are different merely several percents, i.e 100% vs 105%, numbers are just for easy understanding. Then when a fighter refuses to attack in ground, he reduces his chance 33%. Even he has inferior ground game, let say 20% ground game, willing to attack gaining his capacity drastically. It has consequences:
1/ Mental game: It clears his fear. A fighter fears his opponent, then he is already lost. Even a weaker fighter with strong metal can win against stronger fighter with weaker will.
2/ Active is far better than inactive, follows opponent game plan. Waiting is an active game plan
2/ Reduce his opponent advantage and will. Say to him by actions, I don't fear your ground game and I will fight will reduce his action
3/ Increase damage wherever, whenever possible.

 

[Prex32]

cain had good head movement
jds was unable to tag him
but he also allowed him to punch him really easy
he lost his focus totally
basically the gameplan is to avoid beeing punched in the first two rounds
his tdd was good, he has the strenght
he shouldn

 

[Break Brick]

This,

Let say MMA is the sum of striking, grappling and ground game, each is 33%. When you are at the top of the game, fighters capacities are different merely several percents, i.e 100% vs 105%, numbers are just for easy understanding. Then when a fighter refuses to attack in ground, he reduces his chance 33%. Even he has inferior ground game, let say 20% ground game, willing to attack gaining his capacity drastically. It has consequences:
1/ Mental game: It clears his fear. A fighter fears his opponent, then he is already lost. Even a weaker fighter with strong metal can win against stronger fighter with weaker will.
2/ Active is far better than inactive, follows opponent game plan. Waiting is an active game plan
2/ Reduce his opponent advantage and will. Say to him by actions, I don't fear your ground game and I will fight will reduce his action
3/ Increase damage wherever, whenever possible.

Great post dude

 

[sprucelees]

JDS should go for the take down

 

[TeamDuffee]

Cain basically lit him up on the feet.

For the people obsessed with numbers:

http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/4137

Those are some really dominating numbers for Cain.

 

[underwearhero]

2. Close his eyes and throw haymakers praying that one clips Cain on the temple again.

you know that might really be the only way for jds to win. i rewatched cain/jds 2 again today and have more confidence in cains chin now since jds did land good shots but none seemed to rock cain.

the main problem for jds might be that he can't handle pressure. When cain is walking forward I noticed Jds tries to land the counter punch (uppercut) and when it doesn't stop Cain he just doens't really know what to do anymore. He then is defending takedowns or getting clipped while standing against the cage. He circles away from the cage but Cain walks right back in front of him applying the pressure. This repeated itself throughout the fight. Kinda similar to what chael did to sonnen in their first bout.

I think this is the blueprint for beating JDS. He can't implement his game well while being pushed back constantly. The blueprint for Cain? Hitting the temple? Other than that, if you can stop his takedowns, then outstriking him could work. But the question is if there is anyone who can do that consistently.

 

[underwearhero]

Those are some really dominating numbers for Cain.

Cains sub attempt is missing though. He did go for the armbar.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

If JDS is not careful he is going to become the Rampage of the HW Division. He is too in love with his hands. No kicks, or TD attempts, he did not even clinch and use knees.. Obviously taking Cain down is tough but you have to give him something else to think about other than the boxing..

 

[ZeroZeroZero]

Cain 2.0 is going to be hard to beat. Relentless takedowns (Brock should've adopted this strategy against Overeem), fast pace and don't not trying to get into any striking exchanges. The only chance is clipping him early on a takedown attempt. JDS will need to rely more on uppercuts to catch him on the way in (Overeem will need to do this with the uberknee). And JDS will probably only have a round to do this before the pacing gasses him out (no matter how much cardio JDS improves, he'll never get to Cain's level of cardio... you can't sprint forever)

 

[Duxtape]

If JDS is not careful he is going to become the Rampage of the HW Division. He is too in love with his hands. No kicks, or TD attempts, he did not even clinch and use knees.. Obviously taking Cain down is tough but you have to give him something else to think about other than the boxing..

Dos Santos is way faster than Rampage. But yeah, I see what you're getting at. He landed some nice knees in the clinch. He should try to adopt a muay thai style or something.

 

[Someone88]

junior said he wants to work his jiu jitsu a bit more, which makes sense - constantly trying to get up might not be a good idea since he was already so tired - he will also want to pace himself a bit more

cain's head movement seems relatively predictable, i think junior should focus on planting his feet and throwing good combos - he is gonna get taken down, so dont get too worried about that all the time - junior needs to hit cain with a big punch, circle off the cage when he finds himself there, and try to pace himself by not constantly trying to work against the takedown - if hes feeling tired, he can just go down for a while and rest

thats the key to me, to get better cardio in later rounds by not spending himself - he needs to do damage by planting his feet and throwing combos not just an uppercut here and there, he will land as he did land relatively well when they were on the feet - and to not worry if he gets taken down, just relax and work his jits, wait for the right opportunity to get up - he cant keep pace with cain and cain knows that


for cain, i think he needs to use better head movement and focus on his defense more - he almost got clipped a few times and i think he was leaving himself open a bit more

so not huge changes, but there are things to be done

Some good posts in this thread. You make good points.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

He got rag dolled in the first minute of the fight...twice. Cain shot for a single and got him down. Junior got back up and Cain tripped him down again.

edit: Btw, he got lit up on the feet before he got dropped. Go watch that first round and count how many times his head snaps back and he freezes up.

people think junior only lost bc he got clipped, but he got clipped bc of a round's worth of relenltess takedowns and mixed punches, which tired and confused junior - there was no luck going on there, he needs to clip cain early or can has to have even worse head movement / defense next time if junior expects to win

 

[moreorless87]

you know that might really be the only way for jds to win. i rewatched cain/jds 2 again today and have more confidence in cains chin now since jds did land good shots but none seemed to rock cain.

the main problem for jds might be that he can't handle pressure. When cain is walking forward I noticed Jds tries to land the counter punch (uppercut) and when it doesn't stop Cain he just doens't really know what to do anymore. He then is defending takedowns or getting clipped while standing against the cage. He circles away from the cage but Cain walks right back in front of him applying the pressure. This repeated itself throughout the fight. Kinda similar to what chael did to sonnen in their first bout.

I think this is the blueprint for beating JDS. He can't implement his game well while being pushed back constantly. The blueprint for Cain? Hitting the temple? Other than that, if you can stop his takedowns, then outstriking him could work. But the question is if there is anyone who can do that consistently.

I'd say this is also a product of JDS's somewhat limated offence, as with Chuck he really lacks anything that will punish opponants who really push forward.

Those big looping punches are most effective at mid range where they sweep a wide area, just look at the first match where JDS caught Cain with his head low.

Junior really needs to work it fill this gap with something, either a good straight ala Crocop or perhaps an improved MT game with more knees and kicks

 

[BigMuffler]

Attack Cain after failed takedowns.