Israel Adesanya Lean Back/Pull Back Technique

[chinarice]

I like kelvin and agree a good fight but I still feel kelvin should be a WW.

Well he should be but it looks like he doesn't care enough to even try.

 

[ItsyBitsySilva]

The "lean back" otherwise known as "pocket fighting" is the hall mark of any great striker. Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Jon Jones, all have been able to effectively use this tactic to counterstrike and simultaneously minimize damage. Kid is good. Will he be great? Time will tell.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Really?

Wasn't it you who said, to me, "I don't think you understand MMA"?

This is why I said, "I understand MMA & Combat Sports better than you."

You seem to fancy yourself as the determiner of who knows what.

I think you're the one who led this into an argument by saying, "I don't think you understand MMA"

Try approaching me different and will see what happens.

I said "I don't think you understand MMA" based on the fact that you said Costa needed to basically walk right through Izzy - you keep using boxing references in prior posts and this last post so it seems you're coming from a very boxing-centric stand-point of looking at things. Nothing wrong with that, but that strategy does not always apply to MMA where there are so many more weapons/strategies/target-areas.

I'm not the arbitrator of knowledge and neither are you, we are just two fellas having a chat on the internets.

My apologies if you felt my comment warranted an escalation of words, it was not my intent to offend.

LOL, now your admitting "(you)can tell from (my) posts that (I) know a lot about combat sports." <45>

In point of fact, I did help you understand something you're missing: physicality + constitution.

Some fighters have these things but don't use them to their uttermost. Paulo Costa appears to know he is a superior specimen to anyone he's ever faced, and imposes himself on them accordingly.

I never said you didn't know about combat sports, just that you didn't understand MMA. Based on a lot of posts you made I wanted to share my thoughts as to why; if you've read the thread I'm not the only one who disagrees with your analysis.

I do think you make some good points about how Costa could use his athleticism to impose his will and how some of the intangibles could truly be an X-Factor (ability to absorb damage and "make it a fight" as you say).

My biggest criticism is that you over-looking the defense skills of Adesanya with footwork plus all the advantages in terms of height/reach/speed/strike variety & set-up/etc. Based on what we've seen in Costa he is great at imposing his will and breaking fighters but he has never faced someone with the defensive acumen and height/reach advantages + technical advantages as Adesanya. Those are significant areas to overlook and I think will play out in Izzy's favor.

I say all this as someone who is not even an Izzy fan, I'm pretty in-different to him and now that he's champ he's probably slightly annoying at best in terms of personality.

Depends on who were talking about. I gave 3 examples where 3 men imposed their will on Thomas Hearns, 2 of whom knocked him out, the other one came close, but got knocked out. (This may happen to Costa too, but I doubt it.)

Marvin Hagler was better all the way around than Thomas Hearns, and steam-rolled him ... but both Barclay and Roldan were inferior athletes.

Yet both of them (especially Barclay) were physically tougher than Hearns.

You said imposing yourself on someone "can't be done in MMA," but I beg to differ.

Why do you think Khabib and Usman are so absolutely dominant? They have superior physicality to their opponents, and they know it, and they apply relentless pressure against opponents ... who may be technically faster, superior .. but are ultimately physically weaker, and not made of the same mettle. Khabib and Usman both completely dominate their opponents with their physical superiority, and break them, time-and-time again.

If you pay attention, Paulo Costa is exactly like this, but is more striking-based than grappler-based. Costa has repeatedly backed every single person he's ever faced all over the cage, wearing them out physically and mentally, basically knocking everyone TF out, save the one another physical specimen he faced in Yoel Romero.

Everything you say may or may not prove to be true, except I disagree with you regarding Costa's technical soundness. He is better than you're giving him credit for.

Costa throws extremely-hard, leveraged left hooks to the liver, as well as right hooks to the spleen and ribs, also adding heavy kicks to both sides of the abdomen as well. I mean super heavy. And he continues to do this round-after-round. If you watch, Costa's body shots have earned him as many or more wins as his head shots. (His body shots have set up almost all of his head shots also.)

Where Whittaker and Gastelum head-hunted, Costa will not do this. Costa's destroying Adessanya's body will prove to be the difference. It will also prove to be why Adessanya gets knocked out.

This brings us back to the subject title of this thread, Adessanya leaning back. Izzy is going to have his ribs murdered, and that's going to affect his leaning-back style. After he takes a few devastating body shots, he is going to lean forward and start covering up more, and that's when Paulo Costa is going to knock him out.

Of course I may be wrong, but this is how I envision the fight.

Those examples are boxing examples - the footwork is different in MMA, the cage is different then the ring with corners, the kicks + knees + ability to clinch + ability to hand-fight + ability to target almost all areas of the body. So I just don't see how they are super relevant as they are a different sport - I get that you are referencing them for the "mindset-factor" and forcing opponent to make it a war, but in boxing it's a lot easier to do that because of the factors (12 rounds, ring, limited areas to target + limited weapons to use = forced engagements of only strikes to face & body).

When you can kick a guy in his head from a place where he can't even land a punch on you it changes his approach entirely. You can't just "walk through" a guy that's faster, with better footwork; you need to figure out a strategy to effectively pressure. Maybe Costa will come out and be working behind a jab - that would be a great tactic if he can figure out a way to feint/slip into the pocket, as Adesanya has proven very hittable with jabs (Whittaker was landing those clean when he wasn't lunging in with reckless overhands trying to blitz and fight like Gastelum, whom he's not - apparently still having that identity crisis against Till at times it would seem).

I never said imposing someone on yourself can't be done in MMA, just that you need to be technical in doing so in order for it to be effective - athleticism/physicality advantages without effectively applied tactics or technique tend to not work at the highest levels. If that was the case the strongest/toughest dude would always be champion. You claimed Costa is also 100x times tougher than Izzy so if that's the case he should just be able to walk through anything that comes his way no issues - we will see soon enough.

The Usman + Khabib analogies don't work because those are wrestling/clinch-based fighters - the strategy differences actually do matter in MMA believe it or not. As other posters have pointed out Izzy has problems with explosive south-paws that can counter and wrestle because of the stance/threat issue. Costa isn't as fast as Gastelum or Whittaker or Romero and doesn't have the true wrestling threat of any of the three.

You claim that he will destroy the ribs of Adesanya where other opponents were head-hunting - this is a good strategy if he can effectively back him against the cage. Attacking the body with punches in the center of the cage against a striker like Adesanya is a great way to get slept with a step-knee or counter straight, so if he wants to roast his ribs he needs to figure out how to tactically trap him against the cage. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that we haven't seen it yet and that's probably for good reason, it's a risky place to be if you don't have wrestling yourself since you can't realistically threaten a level change.

It's going to be a fascinating fight because Costa is not going to wait like Romero, so it's going to force Adesanya to counter (which is what he's best at and what he wants to be doing). Going to be doing it against an incredibly dangerous and durable opponent though, so it's going to be incredibly close as all fights are. But the fact that it's going to be a technical kick-boxing match in a cage with MMA rules favors Adesanya based on everything mentioned prior.

TO BE CONTINUED...

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Paulo Costa is a walking, talking definition of the adage, "Your best offense is your best defense."

When you fight someone in the center of the ring, especially a taller fighter, and you rush -in (like Whittaker did) that's the hardest you can possibly be hit—if the taller fighter has his feet planted and times you right.

But that's not how Costa fights. He doesn't jump in there, he walks you down (at a very fast pace) walks right through your punches, blocking most—and never stops coming after you—which means Adessanya is going to be backpedaling. The moment a tall fighter starts backpedaling, especially if he's not allowed to set himself, all the leverage on his punches is gone. The more physical Costa is with Adessanya , the better his chances of winning.

And, BTW, Costa did not get dropped from a Uriah Hall's jab, but from an inside hook, elbow-in.

His strategy works great against almost any fighter but the best-of-the-best, but if we don't look at prior fights as examples to learn from then what's the point in watching and making analysis/predictions right? Against Hall, a very powerful striker that can be technical but has less weapons/fight IQ/ability to dictate range/jab/etc. had a lot of effective offense. He's the fighter most like Adesanya that Costa has fought, so I can see why you'd presume that since Adesanya is less powerful version of Hall (weak skinny guys right?) that Costa can use the same strategy against any opponent.

But Adesanya isn't any opponent, he's a world-class kickboxer knowing for being incredibly technical, defensively sound, likes to fight out the counter, and has a variety of insane kicks/knees to throw. He's shown this effectively in MMA and we've yet to see anyone back him up into the cage and trap him there because he is really smart about not letting opponent back him up without setting up traps/escape/feints to buy time and make reads/adjustments. Costa is going to have to absorb a lot of damage if he wants to just pressure in behind

Walking down someone that is taller, has longer reach, is faster, has better technical footwork, and can kick really well does not seem to be the ideal strategy, but I guess we will find out. Not sure why you think Adesanya will just back-pedal and trap himself against the cage since he's never done this and guys have tried to pressure him but he really, really wants to walk you into his strikes so it tends to benefit him. He's actually at his most exposed just sitting at distance when he's not in rhythm, Whittaker's dipping jab was catching him repeatedly.

Don't remember the exact strike Uriah threw, just that it was off his lead-hand and didn't look exceptionally powerful (just quick and that it surprised Costa with it's accuracy). I'll take your word for it though that it was a left-hook, do you think it was particularly powerful strike or just well-place (as I can't remember)?

For someone who claims to want to "intelligently discuss" the topic, your sarcastic insertions belie your true intent.

Again, Uriah Hall did not drop Costa with a jab but with a short hook.
2nd, Hall is a much stronger, more devastating puncher than Izzy.
3rd, you're right, it's absolutely possible that Izzy will catch Costa coming in, just like he caught Whittaker.

However, I don't think it's the same story.

For starters, I think Whittaker is chinney. He's been dropped many times, even knocked-out before, with one punch KOs. 2nd, Whittaker flies in there recklessly, hands down, chin up. Costa doesn't do this.

Paulo Costa is a stronger man than Whittaker, has a thicker skull than Whittaker, has a thicker neck than Whittaker, and I think is just a tougher man than Robert Whittaker. He also hits harder and is physically more imposing. If Izzy clips Costa, and drops him, it will not be devastating to Costa. I think Costa will get right back up and be hunting Izzy's ass, with renewed vigor, precisely as he's done in the past. He's a completely different animal than Robert Whittaker.

I would think posting multiple paragraphs with you in multiple posts with logical arguments strewn throughout would do enough to dissuade you of my intent. My apologies if my sarcasm offended, was just trying to take the piss out of things a little.

I don't think that Izzy will necessarily catch Costa with a counter-punch, I think he's going to be working behind a jab and low-kick, looking to set-up an occasional head-kick/body-kick and mainly trying to just control the distance and keep Costa from being able to get in to close from him. That will be the game we will likely see, Costa trying to figure out how effectively pressure and trap while avoiding all the damage and traps coming his way. His "high guard" strategy isn't the most defensively sound, it definitely works to bait opponents to brawl and can be effective in fire-fights, but it has a lot of risks with MMA gloves against highly technical strikers.

I don't disagree with you at all about the physical traits of Costa being superior to Whittaker. I do disagree that he will not be able to hurt him if he drops him. Getting dropped is the definition of getting hurt, your brain is not ready to get hit and reacts by falling over. Definitely a different animal than Whittaker, so we'll see how he responds to big shots if he does eat them - if he can walk threw flush head-kicks and dozens of sniper-jabs without issue then of course he is going to win. It seems you are indifferent as to whether Adesanya can land them, just that they will have no power/effect on Costa or the fight.

Completely disagree. Whittaker fought a lame fight against Adessanya, a stupid fight. He didn't pressure Izzy at all (I thought I covered this back in the beginning).

Whittaker stayed on the outside, then rushed-in blindly with haymakers, rather than walking Adessanya down in the style befitting Costa. He had no sustained body attack, and appeared to be going for the KO with every shot, rather than looking to wear Izzy out.

Again, Whittaker also does not have the physicality of Costa. Whittaker has a skinny neck and a somewhat small chin and facial structure. This is why he has been KO'd, and will likely be KO'd again in the future. Paulo Costa is simply a better specimen than Whittaker.

Robert Whittaker has never fought anyone with the same ferocity, and relentless pursuit, backing them up all over the cage like Costa has. He fought Yoel Romero sporadically, and carefully; were as Paulo Costa backed Romero up all over the ring.

Whittaker definitely fought a stupid fight against Adesanya, as he thought he could blitz-shift and catch Adesanya similar to Gastelum; except he's not a south-paw and he doesn't really slip punches to counter, he just leaps in and tries to blitz with the over-hand as a lead. But Whittaker never could fight the fight Costa can, like I said - different fighters, different weapons, different tools for the job to attack the holes they can. If anything Whittaker's jab was working really well and some of his low-kicks did as well; he was actually doing well when he wasn't throwing with power, but he couldn't stop himself it seems.

Your claims about Whittaker's chin is crazy - if anything the man had a chin of the Gods, the shots he ate against Romero were absolutely out of this world. But it's the shots you don't see that hurt you as I said prior - who KO'd Whittaker before Adesanya? Wonderboy, another rangy southpaw that likes to counter and fights in a similar style to Adesanya at times. Not known for KO'ing anyone, and yet he KO'd Whittaker, because it was technical and he didn't see it coming.

I was there live at the Costa/Romero fight, it was definitely a war for the ages.

You have an extremely high opinion of yourself and think you're the only person who analyzes fights properly. Newsflash pal, you're not always right, and other people can and will see things you won't.

We both fancy ourselves as "analysts," you in your name directly, me in my title. Next month we will know who is who.

I think reasonably highly of my MMA opinion, otherwise I wouldn't share it, but I'm by no means one of the best, just a guy with some food for thought. And definitely not the only person who analyzes fights properly though lol. Even though I disagree with you I've gained a lot of insight from your perspective and approach to understanding this match-up; it doesn't have to mean I think you are right to mean I don't value having the discussion itself.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and hope you enjoy the fight. If you want to bump this if Adesanya gets slept by all means....I won't if Adesanya wins, could care less, but all is fair play on the Sherdog.

 

[Dorkman]

1st 3 rounds will be competitive. This idea that costa will rush in like robert and just get torched is silly. He is a calculated brawler and the Vettori, Gastelum and Romero fights show Izzy isn't really leagues above everyonelse in the striking department. I can still see the Izzy late round finish but Costa being considered a walk in the park is pretty silly.

Yeah although Costa isn't as fast as kelvin, he is as aggresive if not more so. And Kelvin was able to find success coming in hot on exchanges. If Costa can land like Kelvin did not sure Izzy's chin will hold up.

 

[90 50]

This becomes a speed/response factor, not sure Costa is fast enough. Power and pressure are his keys to victory imo if he can avoid or eat the counters...

Speed doesn’t mean as much if he can get him backed against the cage and in a dirty boxing brawl, izzy will pay in that scenario.

He’s gonna have to stay on his bike and even if he wins he’ll prolly catch shit for it. Costas gonna come forward, and he needs to , to keep the distance closed.

he needs to go for some takedowns too to keep izzy guessing if he’s gonna shoot or punch. That’s gonna be the key to throwing his striking off.

I’d also love to see some hard kicks during some lean back moments. Skinny would flop straight on the floor, already off balance moving back and kick that leg out from under him.

 

[Kryptt]

Speed doesn’t mean as much if he can get him backed against the cage and in a dirty boxing brawl, izzy will pay in that scenario.

Well I was assuming the fade back with a counter but as you mentioned cage, dirty boxing and wrestling as well as breaking the legs down are huge factors. Hard to favor either as I am a fan of both but push to shove Izzy if he plays Costa and is able to control range and counters.

Won't be unsatisfied either way honestly. This should be FotY if both bring their A games.

Edit: Maybe I should have said "precision" instead of speed.

 

[drbolony]

He is a very technical complete striker with a deep toolkit of many different techniques. Same goes for different defensive skills.

He only really used the lean back in his fight against Whittaker

Thank you, haters try to make Izzy seem like some mid level striker who spams the same techniques.

 

[MadNIghtKing]

Izzy is so fun to watch. I can’t believe noobs with goldfish memories only remember the Romero fight. 80 kickboxing fights with many at the highest level although I feel he put a lot of miles and lost a step athletically. But wiser now.

 

[Asako]

In my opinion, Costa is the most dangerous striker Izzy has ever faced in MMA.

Dude puts on more pressure than Izzy has ever seen or dealt with in his life. Costa is also absolutely fearless, doesn't give a fuckk if he gets hit, has a granite chin—and even being dropped doesn't slow Costa down one bit. I don't think there's anyone in the division who is gamer, and really looking to go toe-to-toe, in a nonstop slugfest, like Costa

I believe Costa is also 100x times tougher than Izzy, and that Izzy's only chance is to catch him cold, early.

There seems to be "a certain point" were Costa goes into overdrive; usually, when the pace picks up and things get heated. Costa almost thrives on exhaustion; and he is a brutal body puncher in every round. In fact, Costa is probably the most brutal body puncher the division has ever seen—not to mention one of the most devastating head punchers—and he uses kicks also.

Costa's pressure, his power, and his continued mixing of brutal body shots plus huad shots are going to be laid-out at a pace I don't think the flimsy Izzy will be able to handle.

Izzy got away from getting KO'd by Yoel Romero, because both were afraid to engage. (You may recall that Costa laughed at them both.)

I think Costa is right by criticizing Izzy for not "fighting like a champion," by that Costa meant with aggression and power.

Costa is going to bring both to Izzy, and I think Izzy will not be prepared to deal with it, and will wilt to the body attack after round 3.

In fact, the best way to deal with tall fighters who lean back like that *is* to brutalize the body, and Paolo Costa will give Izzy extra helpings of this throughout the entire fight.

Costa hasn’t faced anyone with Izzy’s speed or quickness. Furthermore, Izzy is a phenomenal range fighter and will avoid the flurries of attack from Costa. What’s even more dangerous, is that if Izzy gets away and Costa over pursues, Izzy will make him pay like he did to Brunson.

Lastly, Costa is a lot easier to prepare for than Izzy. I would imagine Izzy is sparring with heavyweights this whole time. On the other hand, very few sparing partners can give you the look of Izzy because he’s a phenomenal talent.

 

[SandaKicker]

Izzy is so fun to watch. I can’t believe noobs with goldfish memories only remember the Romero fight. 80 kickboxing fights with many at the highest level although I feel he put a lot of miles and lost a step athletically. But wiser now.

Adesanya really fought in the no mans land of kickboxing.

It would be true to say the K-1 heavyweight division and K-1 Max were a lot more competitive.

Only a handful of Adensanya’s opponents could afford to train full time.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

I'm not sold on Adesanya
The style clash favorizes him on paper, but he is chinny and seems upset.

I could see Paulo running through him with sheer aggression and he packs lots of power so...
Interested to see that fight, it's one of the most anticipated TS for a good while imo, it should deliver whatever the outcome is...

 

[Swarthy]

In my opinion, Costa is the most dangerous striker Izzy has ever faced in MMA.

Dude puts on more pressure than Izzy has ever seen or dealt with in his life. Costa is also absolutely fearless, doesn't give a fuckk if he gets hit, has a granite chin—and even being dropped doesn't slow Costa down one bit. I don't think there's anyone in the division who is gamer, and really looking to go toe-to-toe, in a nonstop slugfest, like Costa

I believe Costa is also 100x times tougher than Izzy, and that Izzy's only chance is to catch him cold, early.

There seems to be "a certain point" were Costa goes into overdrive; usually, when the pace picks up and things get heated. Costa almost thrives on exhaustion; and he is a brutal body puncher in every round. In fact, Costa is probably the most brutal body puncher the division has ever seen—not to mention one of the most devastating head punchers—and he uses kicks also.

Costa's pressure, his power, and his continued mixing of brutal body shots plus huad shots are going to be laid-out at a pace I don't think the flimsy Izzy will be able to handle.

Izzy got away from getting KO'd by Yoel Romero, because both were afraid to engage. (You may recall that Costa laughed at them both.)

I think Costa is right by criticizing Izzy for not "fighting like a champion," by that Costa meant with aggression and power.

Costa is going to bring both to Izzy, and I think Izzy will not be prepared to deal with it, and will wilt to the body attack after round 3.

In fact, the best way to deal with tall fighters who lean back like that *is* to brutalize the body, and Paolo Costa will give Izzy extra helpings of this throughout the entire fight.

Get his balls outta yo mouth kiddo.

Costa is a T-rexed Brawler with a tiny Gas tank.

Reminds me of a bigger Lobov but without as much heart or fight IQ.

He is tailor made for Izzy

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Paulo has 21 cm reach disadvantage meaning Israel has a 6 inch reach advantage.

If he's leaning back he'll be swinging at air all night

21cm = 8.25 inches actually ( even worse )

 

[Spath]

Costa has given Adesanya so much crap about him running and being a skinny bitch etc. that it’ll be interesting to see how Adesanya comes to fight.

No doubt he’ll be using footwork to not get trapped against the cage so Costa could tee off on him, but will he be backing up all the time. Does it bother him that Costa doesn’t give him any respect? Does he only try to counter?

I love how Costa works the body with brutal kicks and punches. This will be a very interesting fight

 

[Deleted member 567183]

Do you think there’s zero chance Costa gets him down?

This will be the biggest Question in the fight will he take Izzy down ? No one knows but maybe he could do it but it is possible that the fight will be a stand up war

 

[SandaKicker]

This will be the biggest Question in the fight will he take Izzy down ? No one knows but maybe he could do it but it is possible that the fight will be a stand up war

I would have thought so but most people are talking like that’s no possibility even though Adesanya is no D1 wrestler.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

Costa hasn’t faced anyone with Izzy’s speed or quickness. Furthermore, Izzy is a phenomenal range fighter and will avoid the flurries of attack from Costa. What’s even more dangerous, is that if Izzy gets away and Costa over pursues, Izzy will make him pay like he did to Brunson.

All this might possibly happen.

However, I don't think Costa "flurries," I think he throws serious power shots, each shot designed to harm, thrown with proper leverage and torque.

"Flurries" are what non-punchers throw designed to impress ignorant judges with volume.

Costa cannot possibly "over pursue" .... IMO, his mistake would be to under-pursue ...

Lastly, Costa is a lot easier to prepare for than Izzy. I would imagine Izzy is sparring with heavyweights this whole time. On the other hand, very few sparing partners can give you the look of Izzy because he’s a phenomenal talent.

This shows low fight IQ.

"Fighting with heavyweights" is no prep for Costa, any more than "fighting with Div 1 wrestlers" prepped Dustin for Khabib. Totally different animals.

There is no heavyweight who puts out the pace and pressure of Costa. Not one. Izzy has no one who can prepare him for Costa.

It basically boils down to this: Izzy has the better fistic pedigree, and experience, while Costa is the more powerful, physical fighter, with the heavier punches and kicks.

The outcome of this fight will be determined on whether Costa "hangs back and lets Izzy get his feet planted" to snipe him ... or if Costa hunts Izzy down, never lets him get set, using his superior physicality to back-up, overwhelm, and overpower Izzy ... breaking him down as the fight goes past 3.

 

[SandaKicker]

All this might possibly happen.

However, I don't think Costa "flurries," I think he throws serious power shots, each shot designed to harm, thrown with proper leverage and torque.

I agree he throws combo’s with mean intentions on each punch.

It’s no surprise he’s exhausted at the end of his fights with that in mind.

That being said his cardio looked awful on TUF.

I think if go at each other in the Center of the ring that will suit Costa the most.

 

[Ronin13]

If I was Costas coach, I’d tell him to punch a hole in his fucking tummy.