Islam Makhachev doesn't have good sub defense

None of those positions are strong to finish the choke.

Its uncomfortable for your opponent but you're just going to waste your arms holding on to something with no end product
 
Mansour Barnaoui is one of the best MMA grappler outisde of UFC, he only lost to Kevin Lee, Islam and Gamrot and everytime that was by decision.
Not being actually subbed by him is a proof of good submissions defense
 
FIghtxIQ said:
He means that sub defense is not getting caught in a submission attempt.
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I know what he means but he’s making up his own definitions. Not getting put into a sub defense means your winning the fight for posture and grips and position, etc. that’s all just part of being a better grappler. Submission defense refers to your ability to defend a submission you got yourself stuck in
 
Blayt7hh said:
I know what he means but he’s making up his own definitions. Not getting put into a sub defense means your winning the fight for posture and grips and position, etc. that’s all just part of being a better grappler. Submission defense refers to your ability to defend a submission you got yourself stuck in
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meh, i was always annoyed by that definition.

goldberg used to go on and on about how jon fitch has the best submission defense in the UFC because he had 1000 guillotines attempted on him and he always escaped... meanwhile a guy like maia was clowning people left and right on the ground without anyone coming within a mile of submitting him. or someone like prime penn, obliterating people on the ground.

i agree that it just means they're better grapplers, but that should inherently mean they also have better "submission defense", whatever that term really means. a lot of people starting off with bjj / grappling will ask how to defend an armbar or a triangle or whatever, and the most useful response to that is to show them how to prevent it in the first place. having your arm caught in a fully extended armbar and getting out isn't preferable to blocking the attempt altogether 30 seconds prior and passing them.

or maybe i'm just a grumpy old man.
 
randomg1t said:
meh, i was always annoyed by that definition.

goldberg used to go on and on about how jon fitch has the best submission defense in the UFC because he had 1000 guillotines attempted on him and he always escaped... meanwhile a guy like maia was clowning people left and right on the ground without anyone coming within a mile of submitting him. or someone like prime penn, obliterating people on the ground.

i agree that it just means they're better grapplers, but that should inherently mean they also have better "submission defense", whatever that term really means. a lot of people starting off with bjj / grappling will ask how to defend an armbar or a triangle or whatever, and the most useful response to that is to show them how to prevent it in the first place. having your arm caught in a fully extended armbar and getting out isn't preferable to blocking the attempt altogether 30 seconds prior and passing them.

or maybe i'm just a grumpy old man.
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I think the problem isn’t the definition, I think it’s that they’re celebrating a stat that means you fucked up a bit. And you know, there’s no way to quantify being a better grappler but it’s easy to slap a number on sub defenses

Sometimes though there might be value in letting them attempt it. Those guillotines they have no hope of getting makes the defender uncomfortable for a little while, but burn out the attackers arm. I’ve definitely sat in them with no sense of urgency to escape when I felt safe for that reason
 
Blayt7hh said:
I think the problem isn’t the definition, I think it’s that they’re celebrating a stat that means you fucked up a bit. And you know, there’s no way to quantify being a better grappler but it’s easy to slap a number on sub defenses

Sometimes though there might be value in letting them attempt it. Those guillotines they have no hope of getting makes the defender uncomfortable for a little while, but burn out the attackers arm. I’ve definitely sat in them with no sense of urgency to escape when I felt safe for that reason
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right, but that alone makes the attribute of "submission defense" kind of dumb in the first place.

sure there may be value in letting someone attempt a sub on you, but it's hardly the preferred strategy for any half decent grappler. everyone who's ever rolled has sat in guillotine attempts that they knew weren't going to choke them out... but let's not shit ourselves here. when you roll with someone levels above you, you feel like you're drowning and get exhausted in no time, while feeling completely and utterly helpless. not because you're slapping subs on them and they're just not working, but because any hint of offense from you gets shut down immediately and you're left with nothing but defending, and failing.
 
I think Islam doesn't mind putting himself at risk if it allows him to capitalize and take out his opponent, or even to just tire out the opponent's arms from the sub attempt.
Could it end up costing him a fight? Sure, especially against a grappler like Oliveria or even maybe Poirier. But we will have to wait and see. Khabib did this at times too (RDA, MJ, Poirier) but in the end he dominated all his opponents even worst after they tried their sub attempts. You can see the defeat in the opponents eyes when their sub attempts fail, very bad for their morale and fighting spirit.
 
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Noraaq said:
He knows when he’s in real danger ya damn scrub lol. Notice how his position is the same in all of those guillotine attempts? Cuz he’s letting them think it’s going to work. Levels to the game boyo
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Nah, he’s like a ton a wrestlers, the neck is always, always the most vulnerable, then the ankle. Armlock and omoplata’s are harder to land on a wrestler because of posture, pressure and scrambling ability, IMO.
 
Right now ( only thing that counts), there are some uncertainties but its obvious that he'll be a fixture near the top of division..... and has a clear shot at title.

This is why SOOO looking forward to Islam fighting CharlO or Beneil. These are the 2fights that he could win or lose ( style wise). Should Max lose to Volk in trilogy, love to see Max at 155 as he properly prepares at a class where he probably belongs at now.
Then- Oliveria, DP, Beneil, Islam , Max and Gaejthe at LW. This would mark the best half dozen 155ers at one time in promotion s history.
#f.....ingsick
 
80% of the time guillotines are just patetic desperation moves. Banking on a low % sub risking to get smashed hard is never a good idea.
It feel so good to see someone get punished after a guillotine.

If the guillotine works:the take down was mediocre/the guillotine was very good.
If the guillotine fails and you get smashed: the sub was just a panic move.
 
SherRoad Dogg said:
View attachment 891009

View attachment 891010

View attachment 891011

Look how vulnerable he is to getting caught in a guillotined.

View attachment 891019

He is caught in an armbar here and his arm is straightened. Good thing for him the round timer went out.

View attachment 891023

Moises has a heel hook locked in but same thing here, the round ended and Islam got a lucky break

Even though Islam never has been submitted, he keeps getting caught in submissions.

Imagine Aloe Vera trapping him in a submission
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this idiot..
 
SherRoad Dogg said:
View attachment 891009

View attachment 891010

View attachment 891011

Look how vulnerable he is to getting caught in a guillotined.

View attachment 891019

He is caught in an armbar here and his arm is straightened. Good thing for him the round timer went out.

View attachment 891023

Moises has a heel hook locked in but same thing here, the round ended and Islam got a lucky break

Even though Islam never has been submitted, he keeps getting caught in submissions.

Imagine Aloe Vera trapping him in a submission
Click to expand...
Khabib gives up the guillotine all the time to get his opponent on the floor. No one is guillotining Islam, or any of these Dagestani wrestlers.
 
Times Islam has been submitted: 0

Great thread TS very informative
 
kuroro said:
Khabib gives up the guillotine all the time to get his opponent on the floor. No one is guillotining Islam, or any of these Dagestani wrestlers.
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Exactly. They'll put themselves in danger to get the position. Khabib did it against Poirier.
 
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