Islam is NOT in a lose-lose situation

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Saw some posters arguing that Islam is in a lose-lose situation, because even if he wins, he won't get any credit. This view, however, rests on a fundamental misunderstanding of how good Volkanovski is.

Volkanovski is in terms of skills, athletic ability, and mental fortitude, already top 5 all time in MMA. (Note this is different from saying he is top 5 in terms of greatness, because greatness has to do with accolades). The upshot here is that Volkanovski, even on short notice and coming of an injury, is a more difficult opponent for Islam than Oliveria.

Consider this; we were already reasonably certain how the outcome of the rematch between Islam vs Oliveria would look like: Islam would control Oliveria on the ground if needed. On the feet Oliveria would get caught by Islams criminally underrated footwork, timing, and shot selection. And eventually Oliveria would break. However, every reasonable person will recognise that it is far less certain how this fight between Islam and Volkanovski will look like, even if one should reasonably hold Islam as the favorite.

Sure, Volk will be limited compared himself with a full training camp and a more recovered from the injury. Nonetheless, if Islam dominated Volk in a 50-45 instead of a 48-47, or finishes Volk, Islam should get massive credit. Indeed, if Islam manages to do that, he should get more credit than if he again beat fragile Oliveria. Hence, Islam is not in a lose-lose situation.
 
So, a Couch-Volk who hasn't had a trainings camp, hasn't bulked to move up to LW and with only 11 days until the fight is as good as a full training camp and bulk up to LW Volk?

Well at least you don't have to give Islam any credit if he wins, not like you would anyway
A couch volk will put up a better fight than the other guy
 
To say that Islam has plenty to win here is to not give Islam credit for where he is and what he has already achieved.

Fighting an opponent from a lower weight class that you already beat (even though some question that decision) when you have had a training camp and the opponent has not is not a fight where you will be able to get any significant credit. Islam was already expected to win their last fight, as he was the champion of the higher weight class (as well as the stylistic match up where the smaller guy being the striker and the larger one being the grappler), so the expectations on him now are much higher. Training camps are a huge deal, especially when you are moving up in weight class to fight.

The mistake is Volk's though, I think. He's going to have much less of a chance to exploit what he feels like he learned from the first fight, and losing here will make a proper rematch with full preparation less desirable in the future.
 
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Well at least you don't have to give Islam any credit if he wins, not like you would anyway
A couch volk will put up a better fight than the other guy

Recently you told me to never again write or quote you, so, why do you quote me?
 
Islam will always be in a lose/lose because he will forever be in the shadow of the great Khabib. The expectations for him are too high.
 
First, I think this argument should have gone where you saw it.

Secondly, you say if Islam dominates, he should get massive credit. I dont see that reaction happening. The sole benefit of the Charles rematch was: Charles had a weird performance first time around, so now's a chance to beat a better-performing Charles. It wouldn't matter if Islam beat him as easy, he could struggle more, but it'll now be the right version of the opponent. That is not the case here. Say Islam dominates, you don't think the prevailing theory will be that Islam did better because of the lesser condition Volk is coming in at? Sure, everyone might be saying that Islam ultimately beat him twice, 0-2, no more chances and whatnot, but that will be more of a reaction to all the title rematches, not some testament to Islam's proven superiority

For those people who questioned Islam's win, this fight will not be answering their question.

Having said that, I saw a lot of people criticize that this is the prime condition to take Volk in, so Islam deserves less-to-no credit for accepting the fight, but that's nonsense. EVERY fight is a risk, and training for one opponent only to switch that last moment is another, let alone the skill level of Volk.
 
Its a win in a case that people were already talking about his fight and now Islam gets it with Volk not having full training camp. If he gies 2-0 then this fight series is finished for good.
 
So, a Couch-Volk who hasn't had a trainings camp, hasn't bulked to move up to LW and with only 11 days until the fight is as good as a full training camp and bulk up to LW Volk?

You didn't read carefully enough.

The point is NOT that he gets more credit for beating this version of Volk compared to a full camp version of Volk. The point is that he is not in a lose-lose situation, because IF Islam dominates Volk he should get more credit compared to the credit he should get by beating Oliveria again.
 
First, I think this argument should have gone where you saw it.

Secondly, you say if Islam dominates, he should get massive credit. I dont see that reaction happening. The sole benefit of the Charles rematch was: Charles had a weird performance first time around, so now's a chance to beat a better-performing Charles. It wouldn't matter if Islam beat him as easy, he could struggle more, but it'll now be the right version of the opponent. That is not the case here. Say Islam dominates, you don't think the prevailing theory will be that Islam did better because of the lesser condition Volk is coming in at? Sure, everyone might be saying that Islam ultimately beat him twice, 0-2, no more chances and whatnot, but that will be more of a reaction to all the title rematches, not some testament to Islam's proven superiority

For those people who questioned Islam's win, this fight will not be answering their question.

Having said that, I saw a lot of people criticize that this is the prime condition to take Volk in, so Islam deserves less-to-no credit for accepting the fight, but that's nonsense. EVERY fight is a risk, and training for one opponent only to switch that last moment is another, let alone the skill level of Volk.

"Say Islam dominates, you don't think the prevailing theory will be that Islam did better because of the lesser condition Volk is coming in at?"

I think it will be the prevailing story. But my argument is that it should not be the prevailing story, because Volk is SO good that if he can dominated a diminished version of Volk he SHOULD get more credit than beating Oliveria again.
 
"Say Islam dominates, you don't think the prevailing theory will be that Islam did better because of the lesser condition Volk is coming in at?"

I think it will be the prevailing story. But my argument is that it should not be the prevailing story, because Volk is SO good that if he can dominated a diminished version of Volk he SHOULD get more credit than beating Oliveria again.
Yes, he SHOULD, but he WON'T, which is why people are saying he's in a lose-lose. He SHOULD have got full credit for beating Volk the first time around, but look at the objection to that. It's part of why the intrigue in this rematch was so high.

And yeah, this is a bump up from Charles, but from the second this became the replacement, the comparison will not be Volk compared to Charles, it'll be Volk compared to the first fight, which zero people will be arguing is in a better position this time around
 
Yes, he SHOULD, but he WON'T, which is why people are saying he's in a lose-lose. He SHOULD have got full credit for beating Volk the first time around, but look at the objection to that. It's part of why the intrigue in this rematch was so high.

And yeah, this is a bump up from Charles, but from the second this became the replacement, the comparison will not be Volk compared to Charles, it'll be Volk compared to the first fight, which zero people will be arguing is in a better position this time around

Well all I can do is to try and persuade people to accept the true conclusion using the light of reason - which is what I am trying to do in this thread.
 
This second fight will add nothing to his legacy.

In the future people will say, "he already beat full-camp Volk, so beating short notice Volk was expected."
 
Islam will always be in a lose/lose because he will forever be in the shadow of the great Khabib. The expectations for him are too high.

He’s is in a lose-lose because the Conor fans can’t let it go. Remember how people said Islam didn’t deserve a TS. Then it was “Charles had an off night”. Then “Volk was the smaller guy” in the fight. Then Islam had illegal IV. Now it’s “Volk didn’t have time to prepare”.

it’s crazy the mental loop holes people have to jump through to avoid acknowledging Islam’s accomplishment as a fighter.
 
This second fight will add nothing to his legacy.

In the future people will say, "he already beat full-camp Volk, so beating short notice Volk was expected."

If he wins another closely contested fight against this version of Volk, those people would be correct.

However, if he dominates this version Volk, those people would be incorrect. Because they would fail to recognise that dominating a short notice, slightly injured Volk, is very impressive - Volk is just that Good.
 
You said it's not lose-lose, but then gave reasons for why it is a lose-lose fight.

Saying he SHOULD get more credit is not the same as saying he will get more credit, which we all know he won't. Even you said he'd have to completely dominate 50-45 or finish a top 5 all time fighter to get any credit at all, and even that isn't true. He already did beat him when Volk had 7 months to put on size, went to Australian time zone, had 8 hours less time to rehydrate, fought at like 9 in the morning with a hostile crowd, and he still got no credit for winning because he didn't plow through him like an amateur, so it's pretty silly to pretend beating him without those disadvantages is going to convince the people who still pretend Volk was just a FW the last time they fought.

A much tougher fight that you'll gain nothing for winning is a lose-lose.
 
Beating Volk is a win no matter how you slice it, even on short notice. I just wish we could see both fight with full camps. Really annoyed right now lol
 
I'd say it's a lose-lose situation except that if Volk loses, he won't get another attempt at Islam and Islam is getting a short notice Volk. So for Islam, if he wins, even if it doesn't solidify his legacy, it means that he will have avoided a full camp Volk which might be the biggest threat to his title reign.
 
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