Is/was MMA ever bigger than boxing?

[kflo]

I don't think you realise how big Ali was in that period. Supposedly, the Spinks rematch was watched by about 2 billions persons. Number might have been inflated a bit, but he was wildly popular

inflated a little? the global population was 4b......

 

[dr. john lee]

Boxing is in a transition period. I've been a fan since the age of 10 or so, so I've followed the sport off and off for over three decades. There are a lot of stars who are at the end of their careers and currently no one has captured the public's attention in the same way, at least in the US. Additionally, the belts are actually worse than they were a decade or so ago before "super" or diamond champs. The proliferation of belts has really hurt the sport's credibility since it's hard to say there is one guy/gal who is the best in a given weight class since they don't hold all the belts. As a fan, it's frustrating. Things with MMA are a little more straightforward since the UFC is the dominant org and just run like a sports entertainment company (popularity matters as much/more than actual ability/objective rankings). You get more blockbuster fights in MMA right now, and that is more attractive to casuals.

I still prefer boxing overall. A good, high level boxing match is fucking incredible in terms of endurance and grit. I still can recall how I felt during the Pac-Marquez quadrilogy, or the elation in my neighborhood when Chavez beat Camacho...or the craziness of Douglas' KO of Tyson...but the sport is definitely in a rough spot bc of greed on the part of the sanctioning bodies and stupid shit on the part of promoters who turn everything into a pissing contest.

Boxing reached a peak in the 90's. Every show, they would have guys on there and you soon knew them... kind of like how UFC does it now. I watched every Boxing After Dark show and pretty much knew 100 names in boxing. I went to many fight parties (boxing PPV at friend's) back then. Now, probably been to maybe 2 (boxing) in the last 15 years. OTOH, been to maybe 10 on the MMA side.

 

[Alphafail]

I don't know enough about boxing to say, but my guess is nope, considering how old and solidified it is.

 

[Go2BATTLE83]

I think the highest level boxing superstars, the 2 or 3 of them out there are probably more visible than the highest level MMA superstars, considering at the moment there just aren't that many because guys like Bones, and Conor are so inactive right now, the current roster of champions hasn't quite caught on yet with the public at large in the way that guys like GSP, and Anderson Silva did when they were on top. I think fighters like Usman, and Nunes, and Francis, and Bullet can be superstars but the UFC needs to put the hype machine behind them even more than they are.

HOWEVER, as a whole, it's clear that MMA is bigger than boxing, like the entire entity of both sports? MMA by far has a larger reach right now.

 

[JudoJabs]

These guys are an established data analytics firm that works with the NFL, NBA, English Premier League, etc.

They are saying boxing (as a sport) is 4th in America right now as far as popularity with the youth and is growing at the same rate as Soccer in the US.


https://twocircles.com/us-en/articles/boxing-genz-star-stories/




Significantly, the study found that one-in-three (32%) sports fans in Gen Z2 is an avid boxing fan compared to 6% of Boomer sports fans, and whereas boxing ranks as Boomers’ 11th favorite sport, it ranks as number four for Gen Z. Fight sports counterpart MMA is Gen Z’s sixth favorite sport (ranking 12th for Boomers).

The popularity of boxing is driven by several key factors related to Gen Z behavior, also identified in the study. Firstly, Gen Z is more inclined to follow individual athletes compared to older generations – 33% of Gen Z sports fans following specific athletes versus 25% of Boomer fans.






Also, based on 2019 numbers, boxing was still the most watched Combat Sport in America, even the countdown/training camp shows pull in huge ratings.


“For the 2019 calendar year, PBC Fight Night telecasts on FOX averaged 1,403,000 viewers.

Those figures are up:

+12% over 2018’s average of 1,254,000 viewers (4 tcs).

+103% better than ESPN’s average for Top Rank Boxing telecasts (vs. 692,000 viewers)

+35% better than ESPN’s UFC Fight Night

In 2019, Americans consumed over 2.1 billion minutes of PBC Fight Night on FOX, which was plus-147% more than last year’s 849 million (PBC FOX telecasts only).

What really stood out was FOX’s additional shoulder programming. Specifically, the Fight Camp series. The last Deontay Wilder–Luis Ortiz episode set FOX viewership records with almost 2.5-million watching, as well as the Countdown, Face To Face, and Inside PBC Boxing shows.

What’s aided this is how FOX has packaged its broadcasts. It was tough to miss Shawn Porter’s visit to the FOX’s NFL Sunday studio with Curt Menefee, Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long, Jimmy Johnson and Michael Strahan during Week 3 of the NFL season. It served as a nice crossover push to Porter’s much-anticipated fight against Errol Spence Jr. in September.

Above everything else, it’s what FOX did best, giving the fighters a face at mainstream sports events like Sunday NFL Games, Thursday Night Football, baseball games and WWE events in promoting big fights”


I think we live in a UFC bubble.

 

[JudoJabs]

This.
Also boxing is for old people

Not according to the most recent studies, it’s actually the boomers that abandoned it. The youth (Millennials and even more the Gen Z) are into it, more so than a lot of sports, MMA included. The youth has abandoned baseball in America while embracing boxing.

 

[kflo]

These guys are an established data analytics firm that works with the NFL, NBA, English Premier League, etc.

They are saying boxing (as a sport) is 4th in America right now as far as popularity with the youth and is growing at the same rate as Soccer in the US.


https://twocircles.com/us-en/articles/boxing-genz-star-stories/




Significantly, the study found that one-in-three (32%) sports fans in Gen Z2 is an avid boxing fan compared to 6% of Boomer sports fans, and whereas boxing ranks as Boomers’ 11th favorite sport, it ranks as number four for Gen Z. Fight sports counterpart MMA is Gen Z’s sixth favorite sport (ranking 12th for Boomers).

The popularity of boxing is driven by several key factors related to Gen Z behavior, also identified in the study. Firstly, Gen Z is more inclined to follow individual athletes compared to older generations – 33% of Gen Z sports fans following specific athletes versus 25% of Boomer fans.






Also, based on 2019 numbers, boxing was still the most watched Combat Sport in America, even the countdown/training camp shows pull in huge ratings.


“For the 2019 calendar year, PBC Fight Night telecasts on FOX averaged 1,403,000 viewers.

Those figures are up:

+12% over 2018’s average of 1,254,000 viewers (4 tcs).

+103% better than ESPN’s average for Top Rank Boxing telecasts (vs. 692,000 viewers)

+35% better than ESPN’s UFC Fight Night

In 2019, Americans consumed over 2.1 billion minutes of PBC Fight Night on FOX, which was plus-147% more than last year’s 849 million (PBC FOX telecasts only).

What really stood out was FOX’s additional shoulder programming. Specifically, the Fight Camp series. The last Deontay Wilder–Luis Ortiz episode set FOX viewership records with almost 2.5-million watching, as well as the Countdown, Face To Face, and Inside PBC Boxing shows.

What’s aided this is how FOX has packaged its broadcasts. It was tough to miss Shawn Porter’s visit to the FOX’s NFL Sunday studio with Curt Menefee, Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long, Jimmy Johnson and Michael Strahan during Week 3 of the NFL season. It served as a nice crossover push to Porter’s much-anticipated fight against Errol Spence Jr. in September.

Above everything else, it’s what FOX did best, giving the fighters a face at mainstream sports events like Sunday NFL Games, Thursday Night Football, baseball games and WWE events in promoting big fights”


I think we live in a UFC bubble.

I don’t think those are fair comparisons. The ufc puts out a lot more content than PBC and just comparing to fight nights isn’t a good comparison. Some prelims for ppv’s average more than 1m.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

These guys are an established data analytics firm that works with the NFL, NBA, English Premier League, etc.

They are saying boxing (as a sport) is 4th in America right now as far as popularity with the youth and is growing at the same rate as Soccer in the US.


https://twocircles.com/us-en/articles/boxing-genz-star-stories/




Significantly, the study found that one-in-three (32%) sports fans in Gen Z2 is an avid boxing fan compared to 6% of Boomer sports fans, and whereas boxing ranks as Boomers’ 11th favorite sport, it ranks as number four for Gen Z. Fight sports counterpart MMA is Gen Z’s sixth favorite sport (ranking 12th for Boomers).

The popularity of boxing is driven by several key factors related to Gen Z behavior, also identified in the study. Firstly, Gen Z is more inclined to follow individual athletes compared to older generations – 33% of Gen Z sports fans following specific athletes versus 25% of Boomer fans.






Also, based on 2019 numbers, boxing was still the most watched Combat Sport in America, even the countdown/training camp shows pull in huge ratings.


“For the 2019 calendar year, PBC Fight Night telecasts on FOX averaged 1,403,000 viewers.

Those figures are up:

+12% over 2018’s average of 1,254,000 viewers (4 tcs).

+103% better than ESPN’s average for Top Rank Boxing telecasts (vs. 692,000 viewers)

+35% better than ESPN’s UFC Fight Night

In 2019, Americans consumed over 2.1 billion minutes of PBC Fight Night on FOX, which was plus-147% more than last year’s 849 million (PBC FOX telecasts only).

What really stood out was FOX’s additional shoulder programming. Specifically, the Fight Camp series. The last Deontay Wilder–Luis Ortiz episode set FOX viewership records with almost 2.5-million watching, as well as the Countdown, Face To Face, and Inside PBC Boxing shows.

What’s aided this is how FOX has packaged its broadcasts. It was tough to miss Shawn Porter’s visit to the FOX’s NFL Sunday studio with Curt Menefee, Terry Bradshaw, Howie Long, Jimmy Johnson and Michael Strahan during Week 3 of the NFL season. It served as a nice crossover push to Porter’s much-anticipated fight against Errol Spence Jr. in September.

Above everything else, it’s what FOX did best, giving the fighters a face at mainstream sports events like Sunday NFL Games, Thursday Night Football, baseball games and WWE events in promoting big fights”


I think we live in a UFC bubble.

You claim these guys are super reputable but nobody has ever heard of two circles, the article links to a video with 325 views, the Tweets have basically no attention. When it comes to their actual methods of coming to this conclusion, they say the survey was conducted with 6000 people which isnt a particularly large sample group, they also dont go into detail on exactly WHAT they asked, or the exact demographic breakdown (age, race, location etc etc) of the people they asked. And we dont know if these results are tainted by recent celebrity/novelty boxing so people that watched a Paul brother box are now listed as "avid boxing fans"

As for PBCs numbers, you're comparing network television to cable. Notice how (as per your own numbers) when the UFC and boxing are on the same network (Top Rank in this case) the UFC does better ratings.

If boxing really was more popular among young people, why do UFC fighters have much larger social media followings than boxers on average? why does UFC content do much bigger numbers on Youtube etc? why hasnt there been a boxing video game in a decade? why does Reddit MMA have HALF A MILLION more subscribers than Reddit boxing?

 

[Vegeta]

Not according to the most recent studies, it’s actually the boomers that abandoned it. The youth (Millennials and even more the Gen Z) are into it, more so than a lot of sports, MMA included. The youth has abandoned baseball in America while embracing boxing.

Didn't know that.

 

[JudoJabs]

You claim these guys are super reputable but nobody has ever heard of two circles, the article links to a video with 325 views, the Tweets have basically no attention. When it comes to their actual methods of coming to this conclusion, they say the survey was conducted with 6000 people which isnt a particularly large sample group, they also dont go into detail on exactly WHAT they asked, or the exact demographic breakdown (age, race, location etc etc) of the people they asked. And we dont know if these results are tainted by recent celebrity/novelty boxing so people that watched a Paul brother box are now listed as "avid boxing fans"

As for PBCs numbers, you're comparing network television to cable. Notice how (as per your own numbers) when the UFC and boxing are on the same network (Top Rank in this case) the UFC does better ratings.

If boxing really was more popular among young people, why do UFC fighters have much larger social media followings than boxers on average? why does UFC content do much bigger numbers on Youtube etc? why hasnt there been a boxing video game in a decade? why does Reddit MMA have HALF A MILLION more subscribers than Reddit boxing?

You can’t be serious. It’s a sports based data analytics company....you’re not supposed to know about them. They don’t deal with the public nor cater to retail. You won’t know about them unless you work for the operations department of a sports league and are in charge of allocating funds towards marketing and sales based on market trends.

There are much much larger b2b companies and corporations in this world that none of us have “heard of” because they don’t cater to the public/retail, does the fact that you haven’t “heard of” those companies mean anything? You can look at who they’ve worked with on their site, linkedin etc. So let me ask you this again, why are you supposed to know about them when they have nothing to offer you or me, unless we own or run a major sports team or league.

https://twocircles.com/us-en/clients/

 

[djason1988]

Boxing has a significantly lower barrier of entry. A person can start their boxing career with a few months basic training if they have decent athleticism. MMA requires a vast multitude of skillsets, and by extension, a lot more gear, training time, coaches, gym fees, etc.

 

[JudoJabs]

Well that’s objectively false, just a quick search disproves that
View attachment 863199

And I guarantee there will probably be more celebrities and more casuals watching this match than last UFC event

Last KO Gervonta had trended number 1 on youtube for 24 hours. He is not the biggest name yet. But there is still buzz for this next event as well, the below video will easily hit 2.5 M views on youtube and it has only been a couple of weeks. We live in an MMA bubble.

 

[Stuart0502]

r/MMA - 1.6 million subscribers

r/Boxing - 1 million subscribers

MMA has 1.6 times the popularity of boxing right now based off reddit. I don't think either of those boards are any better than the other.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Country by country it seems to me (going by instinct):

Boxing is bigger: Mexico, UK, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Cuba, Argentina, Venezuela, Philippines

MMA is bigger: Brazil, Australia, NZ, Poland, Sweden, Netherlands

Not sure/close: USA, Canada, Russia, Japan, South Korea

Thoughts?

For Japan and Korea I would assume boxing for Japan and MMA for Korea. Korea used to produce world champion boxers in the 70s and 80s and then they stopped participating as the country grew richer and the sport was seen as barbaric. MMA isn't looked upon favorably there either but there seems to be more MMA fighters coming out of there over the past decade or so. For Japan it seems like MMA was a fad in the early to mid 2000s, but they're still producing some top level boxers.

 

[arcadeperfect]

In North America I feel MMA at the moment has surpassed boxing in terms of popularity. Since I was in school, I have NEVER encountered a boxing fan but I have encountered a couple of MMA fans ranging from hardcores to casuals. Most people I talked to in high school back in the day couldn't name me one boxer aside from Mayweather or Mike Tyson.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Yeah, how often in a real fight do you see a gentleman's agreement to do that? All I ever see is people just helplessly flailing whatever they can flail at each other.

Lol @ gentleman's agreement. When someone gets knocked down it's PRIDE rules all day baby.

 

[kflo]

For Japan and Korea I would assume boxing for Japan and MMA for Korea. Korea used to produce world champion boxers in the 70s and 80s and then they stopped participating as the country grew richer and the sport was seen as barbaric. MMA isn't looked upon favorably there either but there seems to be more MMA fighters coming out of there over the past decade or so. For Japan it seems like MMA was a fad in the early to mid 2000s, but they're still producing some top level boxers.

 

[arcadeperfect]

That's a big part of why it's seen as barbaric.

 

[GUY]

Maybe right now but boxing is much more culturally important in so many more countries than MMA. Mexico, Japan, Canada, Various parts of Europe, South America and Africa. It's gonna take a lot for MMA to ever catch up culturally.

I don't agree. Boxing has the advantage of being around for a lot longer. But mma is a truly global sport, while boxing is a product of british/american culture. MMA gets knowledge developed accross centuries in different cultures. It has the potential to be culturally relevant on a global scale.

 

[JKS]

MMA is Boxing’s bitch

Here is Boxings biggest star waiting like a good little boy and behaving himself for Nate/Jorge to end. Dana was nice enough to let the PPV air for boxing fans while they wait.

960 × 667

https://www.mmamania.com/2019/12/1/...delaying-his-fights-for-ufc-244-diaz-masvidal

Who's the bitch again???