Is the overall MMA game slipping?

[Paolo Delutis]

Ive been thinking alot lately after the Strickland and Costa fight and again with Cannoneer and Imavov.

Is the overall MMA game becoming weaker?

Here's my thought process, lets take Costa vs Strickland... You have a guy whos clearly physically bigger and strong fighter in Paulo Costa who's trained high level BJJ under the Nogueria brothers if im not mistaken , yet not ONE takedown was attempted against a former WW who's been exposed by wrestlers in the past? Am i missing something here? MMA is supposed to be about the ultimate chess match, using a variety strategies and techniques to take your opponent out , your strengths applied to theirs weaknesses while avoiding exposing your own weaknesses in the meantime...however the plan seem to be to just stand and bang? Like street fighter lever fight IQ almost too as he didnt even have an answer for a Teep kick and Jab? Strickland is just waiting to be taken down IMO his whole style is a wrestlers dream Imo , yet everyone wants to just play Pitty patt with him


Okay maybe its just a Costa problem right?


Well lets look at Saturdays Main event... You had Jared who seemed to come to work that night with only one idea...and when that didnt work he looked lost and just started clinching which eventually lead to him getting lit up , i will say the stoppage was a tad early but the body language didnt look good from Jared...Jared was a former HW and has great GNP infact it's probably his best weapon ...yet again no real attempts to take the fight to the floor..had he shot for a takedown when he got clipped the fight probably wouldn't have gotten stopped..just saying..

So my question for the thread, do you agree that the overall MMA game is becoming stagnant or atleast less strategic then in the past , are fighters forgetting this is MMA? And grappling is a thing?

To me a well rounded game with an individuals style and personality added to it, is the sole purpose of a mixed martial artist...

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

I was going to answer your thread, in that I agree Costa is an idiot for not pursuing a ground game, and I also think MMA is degenerating.

The best MMA fighters have always been specialists, elite in some field. Or, like GSP, Jones, or DJ, so physically superior they can beat specialists at their own game.

Today, you have mostly "generalists," who are not elite in some discipline.

Guys like Pereira, who only become "average" at grappling — can decimate pretty much anyone, because he can absolutely kill them in striking.

Guys like Khabib, who also was only "average" (for him in striking) — could decimate pretty much everyone, because he could absolutely kill them in combat grappling.

Very few MMA fighters have Khabib's level of combat grappling, or Pereira's level of striking.

Most are just "average all-around," and hence boring, and hence also not very successful.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I was going to answer your thread, in that I agree Costa is an idiot for not pursuing a ground game, and I also think MMA is degenerating.

The best MMA fighters have always been specialists, elite in some field. Or, like GSP, Jones, or DJ, so physically superior they can beat specialists at their own game.

Today, you have mostly "generalists," who are not elite in some discipline.

Guys like Pereira, who only become "average" at grappling — can decimate pretty much anyone, because he can absolutely kill them and striking.

Guys like Khabib, who also was only "average" (for him in striking) — could decimate pretty much everyone, because he could absolutely kill them in combat grappling.

Very few MMA fighters have Khabib's level of combat grappling, or Pereira's level of striking.

Most are just "average all-around," and hence boring, and hence also not very successful.

There something to be said about being highly proficient in one style and trying your best to apply it and maybe we are seeing a redux in MMA of specialists taking over again like we saw in the earlier days of MMA but i also think this is falling to the gyms and the follower mentality that seems to come from simply everyone doing the same thing to form a base...MMA is at it's best when people are being innovative and creative ( think Anderson Silva, DJ, GSP etc) that doesnt happen with cookie cutter training ...


Overall a solid post by you , i agree specialists still have a place in today's game

 

[TheMadHatter]

its the WME era. Most fighters know they wont make big money if the fight isnt appealing to the audience. I truly feel that is why you see less fighters trying to grapple a way to a decision today.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

its the WME era. Most fighters know they wont make big money if the fight isnt appealing to the audience. I truly feel that is why you see less fighters trying to grapple a way to a decision today.

Lay and pray never really worked in any era but grappling also doesnt need to be that either, devastating GNP can be exciting so can quick and tight subs .. we've seen some great MMA beatdowns from the ground ..

That said i wouldn't be surprised if something along this idea is floated by UFC staffers in pre fight fighter meetings...i could see them trying to "remind " fighters about entertainment value but at the same time...if you go and lose because you didnt use all your skills for the sake of being entertaining or less "boring"(????) then your fucking your career more ..as you cant get to the title without winning ( atleast i hope ...thats still the case)

So i dunno if that's the reason but fair point..could be

 

[Fengxian]

Middleweight has been shit for a while. The overall MMA talent has been improving compared to years ago.

 

[TheMadHatter]

Lay and pray never really worked in any era but grappling also doesnt need to be that either, devastating GNP can be exciting so can quick and tight subs .. we've seen some great MMA beatdowns from the ground ..

That said i wouldn't be surprised if something along this idea is floated by UFC staffers in pre fight fighter meetings...i could see them trying to "remind " fighters about entertainment value but at the same time...if you go and lose because you didnt use all your skills for the sake of being entertaining or less "boring"(????) then your fucking your career more ..as you cant get to the title without winning ( atleast i hope ...thats still the case)

So i dunno if that's the reason but fair point..could be

I just cant see a Jon Fitch style fighter ever getting a title shot in today's day and age. Like you had mentioned though, I wouldnt be even slightly surprised if they were reminded to be exciting in the fighters meetings.

 

[humperdoo]

Don't you think they aren't motivated enough?

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Don't you think they aren't motivated enough?

Nope...im more questioning the coaching or the individual game planning of fighters... Lack of creativity/innovation...

I think there motivated i think theres more money to be made in this sport then ever before....with more eyes on the sport too for prestige....atleast in the major promotions...

I was just flabbergasted watching some of these cards recently and seeing how these fights play out when the game plans/ blueprints are pretty clear for victory ..


Maybe fighters are more distracted now?

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

WME ownership is bad for UFC and the "sport"

 

[Sweater of AV]

It's baffling that people watch the UFC and actually think these are the best fighters in the world.

What's the criteria for signing fighters? What does Uncle Goof emphasize on Dancing With the Stars where the majority of these cans come from nowadays? Has the UFC basically forced fighters to take more chances and move away from grappling-based gameplans?

It's been Ultimate Bar Fights for a long time.

 

[tymikeson]

machismo egos get in the way of fighting iq.

 

[Conan the K-9]

Where do you get the Nogueira bros? Or just trying to be funny?
I think he is a bb under Wallid Ismail.
In TUF he was mainly a grappler/bjj guy with quite poor striking. He showed good grappling in the Rockhold fight, but I have no idea why he does not use that more often.

 

[theincognito]

Grappling doesn't work anymore unless

1) one guy is levels above the other guy
2) one guy is already hurt from strikes or tired

That's why there are so many stalemate clinches against the cage nowadays. It's a waste of energy if your main game plan is striking.

 

[Neck&Neck]

“Never let me slip, cuz if I slip then I’m slipping” - Dr. Dre

 

[World eater]

its the WME era. Most fighters know they wont make big money if the fight isnt appealing to the audience. I truly feel that is why you see less fighters trying to grapple a way to a decision today.

More fighters should try to grapple for a win, not a decision. It is not easy to gnp guys like in the old days, but the Dagestanis are showing them how it should be done all the time.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

Back in the day, there was a lot of hype with any ppv that was coming - especially Pride and the UFC. I never missed a ppv and it was highly anticipated. I think the volume of cards has watered down the draw - UFC is clearly signing lower cost talent, throwing their names on the main event and hoping for the best. Fighters are turning into point fighters because the cost of losing is too high.

I'm not sure if it will get any better but overall, it seems like signing the best talent in the world is not their strategy anymore. It's like buy-ing a lot of lottery tickets hoping they catch a connor mcgregor.

 

[skylolow]

I think some aspects of MMA are much more neutralized than others today over 20 years ago. Submission game comes to mind first and foremost. GnP use to be a style basically and today isn't utilized anywhere near what it use to be. Grappling/Wrestling is almost more about control today than take your opponent down and pound the hell out of them. Just seems less offensive than it use be when being utilized to finish a fight.

A fighter not utilizing a certain skill set has always been a thing. Dan Henderson rarely utilized his wrestling in MMA. Costa can have whatever color JJ belt and he isn't ever going to be taking dudes down regardless of the match up.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

WME ownership is bad for UFC and the "sport"

I wonder how much of this is actually a factor...

 

[ferrisjso]

MW in particular is not in a good place quality wise. After all the old people retired the division hit rock bottom and has been rebuilding ever since.

More generally I think MMA has "stagnated" than slipping. The sport is now old enough(and the pay low enough) where fighters aren't getting bigger and better anymore. When a sport is young it evolves rapidly as people learn it exists and start training to pursue a career in it. Fighters get bigger and more skilled, techniques and training regimens drastically change etc. But I think at this point thats mostly done and to the extent MMA evolves going forward it will be measured in decades not years. The young fighters at this point grew up with MMA. Even 10 years ago that wasn't the case.