Is the hand trap undertilized in MMA?

[kxo]

The dutch and people like buakaw had great success with it



Do u think this style is suitable for mma stand up too?
What do u think about the jkd hand trap?



Do u know any good drills except of actually do the movement and try to time it in sparing?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

this is more of a parry than "trapping" imo.

Tho what buakaw did in the video has been replicated quite often in mma so yes

 

[Hotora86]

How about this?

and this?

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

How about this?

and this?

I like how lyoto slips rashads cross. Is that common in karate?

 

[MB5161]

I don't see any JKD style trapping here. Just parrying. JKD style trapping, which is really Wing Chun trapping, is very hard to pull off in MMA, in part because MMA guys don't block punches like Wing Chun guys do. The trap depends on reaching a reference point which doesn't normally occur in boxing or Thai boxing. Plus, you are using your hand to trap instead of hit or initiate a clinch or takedown.

 

[Kframe]

I thought a lot of the so called traps in JKD were just parrys done at various angles? Like pak sau looks just like a regular parry to me.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

When you say hand trap do you mean use the jabbing hand to clinch the opponents jabbing hand and neutralizing it, and punch him with the cross?

I was actually going to start another thread about whether the Jab should still be considered the basic, opening attack in MMA like it is in boxing. In boxing, it is like the most utilized punch, and is often the first punch thrown. And one of my ideas is that since you can clinch and pound in MMA, why not use the jab hand to tie up the opponent's jabbing hand and arm, and strike with the cross?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

this is more of a parry than "trapping" imo.

Tho what buakaw did in the video has been replicated quite often in mma so yes

Do you think it can be used more in boxing too?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

How about this?

and this?

That is really awesome to watch.

 

[Hotora86]

I like how lyoto slips rashads cross. Is that common in karate?

It is, but evasion is usually based on side-stepping rather than upper body movement. It's still allowed of course and since Shotokan kumite is usually focused on speed and countering, a fighter with good dodging skills can prevail.

 

[kxo]

thats why i said underutilized, you see everyone doing jabs, but way less often parrys/ or "lead hand pull downs" for a straight cross to the face. Can't you time your own jab right after the jab of the opponent (almost simulteanously) and hook the arm on the way back to have the jkd "hand trap"?

 

[Vergilius]

thats why i said underutilized, you see everyone doing jabs, but way less often parrys/ or "lead hand pull downs" for a straight cross to the face. Can't you time your own jab right after the jab of the opponent (almost simulteanously) and hook the arm on the way back to have the jkd "hand trap"?

You could, but it's probably a low percentage move - difficult and risky to pull off.

 

[kxo]

difficult yes, but why dangerous, his lead hand is in between your head and your lead hand. When I counter a jab i try to cover my ear with my lead hand and counter jab, so i am at least a bit protected from the right counter hook to the head, when i know get the hook, i will pull my ellbow to my hip while hitting a cross.
I don't see where the risk is. Low percentage yes, difficult yes, but risky?

 

[rmongler]

In mma a lot of guys do the stiff arm as much as they do the jab, Jon Jones is big on that for instance. In bispings fight with Silva, he would sometimes pull down Anderson's lead hand when he backed him up on the fence to strike.

Dunno if that counts as 'trapping' to you or not. If not, well, I dunno what we're talking about that wouldn't already be covered by tying up the clinch or getting in on the legs.

 

[MB5161]

I thought a lot of the so called traps in JKD were just parrys done at various angles? Like pak sau looks just like a regular parry to me.

Thats not really a pak sau in the video. With a pak sau, you are trapping the guys arm against his body so he can't use it. If you throw a jab, and the other guy tries to parry it towards his center line, you would use your rear hand to slap down on his defending hand and pin it against his body. If you can visualize that, you can see why it rarely occurs in real fights. Also, nobody punches like that and keeps their arm extended.

 

[panamaican]

I don't think it's under utilized because we've seen it plenty, besides Machida. I think the expectations are too high. When I think of hand trapping, I think of the whole range from using your hand to simply knock away the opponent's hand to completely immobilizing the opponent's arm.

The better your opponent, the less time you have to put anything into effect and short, quick hand traps like the Buakaw video are far more likely than the longer, limb controls you see in the JKD video. In the past, when I've sparred with people who don't have a lot of experience, trapping and controlling a limb are easy enough if you take the initiative - just reach out and control the arm, they usually don't know what to do.

But guys with more experience don't put their arms out there in such a predictable fashion or leave it out there long enough to capitalize on. So, you go to trap the jab but it's a feint into a takedown or the jab turns into a lead hook that goes around your trap attempt. And suddenly, you have to pay more attention to not getting caught and trapping moves down the priority list.

 

[Kframe]

Thats not really a pak sau in the video. With a pak sau, you are trapping the guys arm against his body so he can't use it. If you throw a jab, and the other guy tries to parry it towards his center line, you would use your rear hand to slap down on his defending hand and pin it against his body. If you can visualize that, you can see why it rarely occurs in real fights. Also, nobody punches like that and keeps their arm extended.

Interesting.. Now this confuses me a bit. I was at a JKD/WC/FMA place. When they trained the Pak Sau, it was literally used as a slap parry. In fact most of the movements were used as deflections of some sort. Now I don't know why they were different, but I wonder if their penchant for competing had anything to do with it. As the instructors regularly compete and WIN in FMA competitions were deflection and hand parries and stops and such are common. They also spar modified Kickboxing rules.

 

[fluffball]

How about this?

and this?

That's called a "knockdown" in boxing, it's one of the first things I learned so I know it is commonly taught: parry downward jab and counter right. I agree with some of the posters saying this isn't the traditional JKD trapping but is "aggressive" parrying.

Trapping IMO is more than slapping things out of the way but actively preventing someone from moving the arm, but then I know next to nothing about kung fu. All I know I've learned from watching YT vidoes and reading Bruce Lee's book 20 years ago.

 

[rmongler]

I've mentioned this before, but if you wanna know what 'mma effective trapping' looks like, watch Barnett vs Nelson.

 

[TheNightmanCometh]

The dutch and people like buakaw had great success with it



Do u think this style is suitable for mma stand up too?
What do u think about the jkd hand trap?



Do u know any good drills except of actually do the movement and try to time it in sparing?

Lol, nothing in that video was hand trapping. Anything that takes advantage of 10-16 oz. gloves isn't applicable. Such as trying to roll punches off your shoulders.