Is tertiary education a human right? Will this measure widen class inequality?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Marbig, May 29, 2014.

  1. Marbig

    Marbig Brown Belt

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    Hey guys,
    Australia just introduced a budget which will allow unis to charge what they want. I shall provide a short summary:

    - Basically, a 3 year undergrad degree costs around $20-30k now. For the fancier courses (double degree or law etc.), its around $50k. If fees are deregulated, they will likely rise to US levels - i.e. $100k for a 3 year degree or $200k for a 5 year one (US folks please tell me if I get the $ wrong).

    - Right now, Aussies don't need to pay for their degree till we earn 51k/year. After the changes, we still don't need to pay for our degrees till we hit 50k/year.

    - Our debt used to be charged under the CPI rate. Now, its been predicted it'll be charged at around 6%. That means a degree which used to cost $25k, even without the additional rises, will now cost around $30k.

    While there isn't any doubt that the average person will prefer the old system, is there any merit to the new one? The government told us that deregulating fees will mean the unis have more money which will mean nicer facilities and more internationally competitive faculties...is this true in US considering your uni fees have always been deregulated? Also, do you think that tertiary education is a human right (as that is what the opposition is claiming) and do you think this measure will widen class inequality even though people don't have to pay back the money till they earn around the average Australian wage (50k)? Or, do you think this is just young people feeling they are entitled to everything?

    Cheers.
     
  2. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, tertiary education isn't a human right (at least not as we'd consider it in the U.S.).

    Will it lead to higher costs? Of course and some people will be priced out of the opportunity so yes to some widening class inequality but not much since you don't have to pay it back until you reach a certain income bracket.

    Is there any merit to the new system? Plenty but not for the students. The merit is for the universities.
     
  3. Cid

    Cid Silver Belt

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    '87 Hockey > sold out piece of crap we have now.
     
  4. AgeofEmpires2**

    AgeofEmpires2** Silver Belt

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    Subsidize tuition and you'll have the most certificated baristas making your coffee.
     
  5. Francis Rossi

    Francis Rossi Here's a song for ya

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    They trebled the costs in the UK, and it hasn't really led to any change in the number of people going. They're just getting into greater amounts of student loan debt instead.
     
  6. sub_thug

    sub_thug Silver Belt

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    Seems like your government is arguing in favor of "trickle-down economics," meaning that they assume that the universities will reinvest their additional money into the school. Personally, I don't see it happening. I think some people's salaries are going to go up, and you may see some minor improvements to your education, but they probably won't be equivalent to how much more it is going to cost you.
     
  7. dAfTiE

    dAfTiE Brown Belt

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    You still have a limited number of open spots for higher learning.
    If it's free or cheap like here, they just need other means of selection than who can afford it. At the local uni I believe tuition cost is about $80 and I can't say I'm overly impressed with the education levels of the baristas and servers we have.

    Maybe I just know a lower class of barista and server/bartender, absolutely a possibility.
     
  8. ben236

    ben236 Silver Belt

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    The quality of education would most likely get better. But if deregulation is accompanied by universal access to government loans, costs will certainly start to rise out of control.
     
  9. Hadron

    Hadron Banned Banned

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    No. We have been over this. No one has an innate right to the labor or belongings of another.
     
  10. Pupi

    Pupi SAVAGE

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    You see this sort of universal public education system as ways to lead to progress. Usually, this benefits more those people of the upper class more than those in the bottom, but eventually it starts to even out in the long run.
     
  11. sabretruth

    sabretruth Too many notes

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    I wouldn't call it a human right, but i support a high-quality, low-cost public university system like here in NY.
     
  12. dAfTiE

    dAfTiE Brown Belt

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    Yeah, I think calling it a human right is stretching it. But I think it's a good ideal to strive for. If you price out a large part of the population from participating in higher education it will lead to at least some amount of wasted human potential which is always a shame.
     
  13. VicDienekes

    VicDienekes Green Belt

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    The quality of education didn't get any better in the UK, it just created a number of courses that meant nothing at all. If anything tertiary education in the UK is much much poorer at all but the top three or four universities.
     
  14. HIMBOB

    HIMBOB Steel Belt

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    Not a human right, merely good policy.


    I don't think the loans will be payable at 6%.
    I think instead it will be at the price the government can source funding at. So basically the government neither makes nor loses money via interest. I don't mind this despite it making my debt more costly.


    I think we do want Aussie citizens to study as such I am not in favour of increasing the price the uni degrees for citizens, however I do think the Unis should be able to charge whatever they want for foreign students (which if you checked out a uni recently is big fucking money).




    One other thing,

    Hockey did talk about changing it so that if you die with a student loan debt it would taken out of your estate. While now that debt is just forgiven.
    Heard a friend say this costs roughly 800m pa currently.
    I have no objection to this but Abbott does, for some reason.

    Also I don't mind the reducttion in pay back threshold, its not going to make or break anyone.


    My biggest objection to the budget is largely this,

    The govenment has low levels of debt, the australian people have high levels, many of the budget measures will result in the government having less debt but as a consquence the people will incur more debt. This increase in uni fees and interest rate thereon do create a society with young people in greater debt than previously.
     
  15. Ruprecht

    Ruprecht Hands Of The Judges Staff Member Senior Moderator

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