Is Taiji Effective for Self Defense, Actual Combat?

Johnny100

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I'm curious as to how effective Taijiquan (also spelled Tai Chi Chuan), in particular Chen style, is for actual combat or self defense against skilled opponents? Is it effective like Muay Thai, Judo or Kyokushin Karate are effective or if not, almost as effective? Please let me know what you think and why. Please only give me your opinion if you have either learned Taiji or train(ed) in it, know of people who do/have and seen them spar or you've sparred with them, et cetera.

Also, what do you think of the videos below?

This is a sparring demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpTbI7VIzDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTP16HPFMms

Thanks for reading everyone.
 
As far as fighting ability goes, finding a capable instructor for what you have listed is far far far easier than for Taiji. But if you're in Denver, go check the second guy out. He might actually know a thing or two.

I don't know about this for sure, but I'm interested in it as a supplement to another form of stand-up grappling, like judo or greco. The striking itself is not that good IMO, but the power generation is good.

Also, it says in the description his opponent in the second video is a sambo and a greco wrestler - I wouldn't know about that, but he gassed in about a minute, using hardly any technique.
 
Tai Chi is really good for someone who has interest in martial arts and wants to get a basic notion of movement. Tai Chi it's really helpful for someone who wants to learn the different kinds of movements and technique that a trained human body can produce or achieve. If you go to China there's a lot of people doing this, mostly older citizens because it's really good for your body balance and movement.

Now to answer your question, Tai Chi isn't nowhere near as powerful and effective as Muay Thai or Judo for example.
To give you an example, I trained Kickboxing some time ago and I sparred sometimes with a guy who was into Tai Chi, he didn't had a great notion of a true combat sport, he was good at learning the movements and techniques but wasn't as skillful as me or other guys in the gym.
A guy with some Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Boxing, Judo, Karate training would do better in a fight than a guy who only knew Tai Chi techniques and movements.

Just to give you another example, in my opinion you'll never see an elite MMA fighter with only a Tai Chi background.
 
I practiced Tai Chi for years and am certified to teach, so I do speak from some experience.

First, there are several different styles of Tai Chi and they focus on different things. Chen is very grappling and joint lock oriented, Yang is more kick-punch, Sun style (almost impossible to find) is mixed heavily with Ba Gua and Hsing I and so has elements of both of those, Wu I don't really know much about but you're unlikely to run across a Wu guy, there are few in the US AFAIK. Chances are that anyone in the states is teaching either Chen or Yang style.

Within those styles there's a huge divergence in combat effectiveness. Probably 95% if not higher % of the Tai Chi instructors out there are teaching it as a form of moving meditation and haven't done much in the way of combat training, and even if they have, they probably haven't sparred much. Most will not be able to teach you anything about fighting, unfortunately. Those that claim to have some fighting knowledge, see how often they spar with striking. If it's basically never, their claims can't be trusted.

I was lucky enough to grow up in a town with a bunch of William Chen students, and we spent a lot of time working on combat applications and sparring. Most of my boxing is based on Tai Chi, and in fact applied Tai Chi as I learned it looks a lot like boxing, though will less sophisticated footwork and an emphasis on power shots and evasive head movement (we looked like a bunch of wannabe Joe Fraziers). We also worked quite a bit on upper body clinching and throws, though the throws were more like Thai style dumps than Judo throws. It was pretty good training. I gave up Tai Chi after I moved away from there because I never found another group of guys who took it seriously as a martial art and actually liked to mix it up.

So long story short, yes Tai Chi can be perfectly good for combat, but you're highly unlikely to find anyone who teaches it that way. If you happen to have a William CC Chen affiliate near you that would be a good place to start, though even then you're more likely to find a bunch of old people in it for health (perfectly fine reason for doing it, btw) than a group of young guys sparring. And be very skeptical of any claims, Chinese internal martial arts guys love to BS you and may show you a few neat biomechanical tricks in lieu of actually sparring. Unless they spar regularly, they probably don't know much about fighting.
 
Never heard of it before but I'm intrigued. I liked the pants of the guys in the first vid; looked extremely comfortable. I was impressed by the sensitivity of the guy in the second vid against and obviously bigger and stronger, though less skilled, opponent. Saying that, the big guy was extremely fatigued very fast. He seemed like the usual big guy who comes into a gym with a long history of beating up little guys and then leaving when little guys start beating him up. The sparring seemed a little over the top so I doubt it's legitimacy. Still, it was good to see the little guy adjust his body weight and balance so well, even if it was staged.
 
I have never done Taiji but the old karate style I originally learnt was a mix of Kyokushin/Goju & Dachenquan (yiquan).

Dachengquan & Taijiquan have many similarities with one another - the standing postures (zhang zhuang) for example that are found in both styles are identical.

I heavily use Dachenquan in my Kyokushin & whenever I spar you can see that I'm not pure Kyokushin - and yes it does work very well. It depends though on the quality of the instruction you're getting and the application/type of sparring you're doing.

The fali/shili, incorporating full body movement, the footwork & sense of calmness is the best things I got out of Dachenquan.

Would I recommend learning Taijiquan or Dachengquan as an individual art by itself - as your first martial art? - Depends on what your goals are - if you want to learn how to fight - no I wouldn't recommend it as a first martial art although I'd very strongly recommend it if you have a strong grounding in Karate, MT, TKD, Boxing etc etc.

Some of the greatest Kyokushin fighters had a background in Dachengquan (yiquan) - what made them standout was their movement/footwork - the greatest benefits are the angles/movement/economy of movement it teaches you.

The greatest proponent of Dachengquan in a full contact environment is Hajime Kazumi - a Kyokushin karateka:


 
Chen-style Tai Chi is great cross-training but very difficult to use stand-alone effectively. My dad and granduncle have practiced it for a number of years, I used to do it on weekends with them and it's definitely helped with my Muay Thai and judo.
 
Great posts by Uchi Mata and Azam (thanks for the Yiquan mention :) ). So good to see informed contributions - as expected from the Standup Technique subforum - about little known disciplines. Little to add to whats been already said... Since the late 30,40
 
so in most cases these arts are good supplemental arts, they enhance or diversify the skills you develop in your base art; interesting, i always feel every art has some value.. the amount depends on how open you are and how efficiently what your being taught is developed.
 
Great posts by Uchi Mata and Azam (thanks for the Yiquan mention :) ). So good to see informed contributions - as expected from the Standup Technique subforum - about little known disciplines. Little to add to whats been already said... Since the late 30,40
 
but how would any of that work, if they were grabbing each others clothing?

It wouldnt. Once the opponent grabs your clothes, if he has a good grip, its very hard to shake him out; thats why 90% of judo throws end up with both guys on the floor.

Internal arts approach is a bit different and its oriented for a predominantly striking conflict: it seeks to deliver a "body shock" just before the grabbing point, to put the opponent off balance and follow with punches, etc. Tui-shou, the hand exercises shown in the video, are just training tools for feeling gravity centers, off balance directions, etc. In a striking match, besides the punch/kick point of contact theres a lot of secondary "bodycontact" (this can be seen in slow motion replays in MMA), parts of the body are continually bumping into each other, the goal is to enter adversary
 
The first guys seem to be skilled in distance and timing. Hard to say how well that would work against someone really trying to hurt you and not using the same style.

The second video is interesting but my BS detector is going off. Something about the big guy's grunting and rolling makes me feel it's a set up. If not then the guy has some great anti-wrestling skills.
 
For everyone saying that the second video is fake, there are dozens of videos of Chen Ziqiang on Youtube.
 
For everyone saying that the second video is fake, there are dozens of videos of Chen Ziqiang on Youtube.

Not sure what that proves. Can you point me to some where he's sparring against properly resisting people?

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have skills. I'm just saying that video looks suspect to me for some reason.
 
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